Toronto stadium a stumbling block for the NFL

[Rider_Stronson]

The NFL's Canadian concern

Friday, February 5, 2010 6:29 PM

The NFL's Canadian concern

David Naylor



NFL commissioner Roger Goodell held his annual Super Bowl address.

And as per usual, the Canadian question came up, this time posed in regard to the issue of expansion.

Here’s what the commissioner said:

“As you know, Toronto is a great market. The Bills are playing up there on an annual basis in a regular season game, and then every other year with a preseason game. I think we want to continue to service that market. We have great fans there. I think it’s a great city. I think they are going to be facing, and I’ve talked to some of the leadership up there, potentially a stadium issue that is going to have to be addressed. Their current stadium, as you know, is a multi-purpose stadium and has a relatively small capacity by NFL standards. So I think there are some issues that would have to be addressed up there, but it’s a great market.”

That’s rather interesting, especially the part I’ve highlighted in bold above.

Goodell has talked to some of the leadership “up there”? To whom would he be referring?

And by suggesting there is going to be a “stadium issue that is going to have to be addressed” what exactly does he mean? Presumably he doesn’t mean Toronto is going to “address” the issue by building a new stadium to house the Buffalo Bills once a year? So what exactly is he talking about and who is he talking to?

The commissioner addressed a number of pertinent topics and I’ve selected a few of his responses below.

On the state of the Jacksonville Jaguars, who have the NFL’s worst attendance and had to black out a number of their games this past season:

“First let me say we know what’s going on in the marketplace, and what our fans and partners are facing in terms of economic challenges. I’ve spent an awful lot of time with Wayne (Weaver) talking about what’s happening in Jacksonville and how that is impacting the attendance. I think Wayne said it very well, that despite other factors, you can’t continue to have an NFL franchise with 40,000 people in the stands. We’ve got to try to improve that. Wayne has been very aggressive in working with the business community, and we will support him in every way. We know there are millions of fans in North Florida that want to continue to see the Jaguars play the great football they did this year, and we will support that, and hopefully we’ll see better results going forward.”

[greenmagic]

Toronto wouldn't get more than 40,000 out for the majority of home games

[Rider_Stronson]

Originally Posted by greenmagic

Toronto wouldn't get more than 40,000 out for the majority of home games

I'd like to know who is going to pony up $1 Billion for a stadium in Toronto. Whoever would want public money from the City and Ontario would get crucified.

[McGreen]

I would like to know who are these people who make up "some of the leadership up there" that Godell has been talking to.

Personally I think he is just paying lip service to southern Ontario NFL fans. Keep stringing them along Roger.

[greenmagic]

Honestly, how many years have they been talking about putting a team back in L.A. for. LA is Rogers first priority right now and its taking him this long to get a team there. No way Toronto gets a team anytime in the near future.

[MulderS]

No way does Toronto get an NFL team without a new stadium

And there's also no way that any level of government is going to put up some money for it either.

The only way Toronto will get a new stadium is if the city ever hosts the Olympic games.

There is also no place (expect the port lands) to put a stadium near downtown, or close to the city core (expect downsview park) And that's everyone's vision iis for a stadium from the pro-nfl people say. I have to remind them that downsview is not owned by Toronto, or even Ontario. That it's a federal park. And they won't give up that land cheap!

[McGreen]

Originally Posted by MulderS

No way does Toronto get an NFL team without a new stadium

And there's also no way that any level of government is going to put up some money for it either.

The only way Toronto will get a new stadium is if the city ever hosts the Olympic games.

There is also no place (expect the port lands) to put a stadium near downtown, or close to the city core (expect downsview park) And that's everyone's vision iis for a stadium from the pro-nfl people say. I have to remind them that downsview is not owned by Toronto, or even Ontario. That it's a federal park. And they won't give up that land cheap!

Given that the greater Toronto area is at least 10 times the population of Saskatchewan (which will likely build a new removable dome stadium in the next four to five years with a combination of municipal, provincial, federal and private funding) I find it strange that they would be unable to find the funds to build a new football facility. This might make sense if everyone in Toronto were dirt poor and living in hovels, but last time I checked there are more millionaires per capita there than most other areas of Canada (possible exception some Alberta cities). What's up with this?

[ruffryderz]

I think the whole skydome dissaster is still in peoples minds, cost to build over 250 million maby more not sure but sold for 25 million years later. So the plan to cough up that kind of coin at this point in time not happeing.

[phail]

Originally Posted by McGreen

Given that the greater Toronto area is at least 10 times the population of Saskatchewan (which will likely build a new removable dome stadium in the next four to five years with a combination of municipal, provincial, federal and private funding) I find it strange that they would be unable to find the funds to build a new football facility. This might make sense if everyone in Toronto were dirt poor and living in hovels, but last time I checked there are more millionaires per capita there than most other areas of Canada (possible exception some Alberta cities). What's up with this?

You're certainly right, but you have to realize we're discussing this on the CFL's most die-hard fans board.

Regardless of what everyone thinks, the NFL very clearly has Toronto as their #2 destination after LA.

It was only last week that word came a Toronto investor was one of 3 bidding for the St. Louis Rams ownership right now.

As for building a stadium, you're absolutely right. If they are getting an NFL team, a new stadium will be built and all levels of government will be pitching in. That's just how these things work.

Will it be in the next 5 years? Probably not.

[Saul]

Originally Posted by McGreen

Given that the greater Toronto area is at least 10 times the population of Saskatchewan (which will likely build a new removable dome stadium in the next four to five years with a combination of municipal, provincial, federal and private funding) I find it strange that they would be unable to find the funds to build a new football facility. This might make sense if everyone in Toronto were dirt poor and living in hovels, but last time I checked there are more millionaires per capita there than most other areas of Canada (possible exception some Alberta cities). What's up with this?

You need a suitable site. Land values close to downtown Toronto vs land values in downtown Regina?

And while Saskatchewan is an economic power right now, Ontario is not.

[green4life]

Biggest prob with building a huge NFL stadium in Toronto (theoratically) is that with Skydome already there - what would they do with the new stadium besides the 10 preseason and regular season games a year? Thankfully, that wouldn't be an issue.

As for the Olympics - I'd love for Toronto to get them. But is anyone else out there bit worried about how the 2015 Pan-Am games will go?

[ricorider]

Originally Posted by green4life

As for the Olympics - I'd love for Toronto to get them. But is anyone else out there bit worried about how the 2015 Pan-Am games will go?

That's only because you live in Sask. Fortunately I'll be old and senile before TO gets the Olympics. 2016 - Brazil. 2020 - eastern hemisphere. 2024 - US of A (That will be 28 years since they hosted a summer olympics. 2028 - eastern hemisphere again. 2032 - maybe TO.

Which is fine with me. TO doesn't have close to enough hiways etc for day to day living. The Olympics would be utter chaos.

[Mad Hatter]

Originally Posted by Rider_Stronson

I'd like to know who is going to pony up $1 Billion for a stadium in Toronto. Whoever would want public money from the City and Ontario would get crucified.

The same people who are going to pony up for the Rider Stadium -- taxpayers.

[MulderS]

Originally Posted by ricorider

That's only because you live in Sask. Fortunately I'll be old and senile before TO gets the Olympics. 2016 - Brazil. 2020 - eastern hemisphere. 2024 - US of A (That will be 28 years since they hosted a summer olympics. 2028 - eastern hemisphere again. 2032 - maybe TO.

Which is fine with me. TO doesn't have close to enough hiways etc for day to day living. The Olympics would be utter chaos.

Hard to say, I was sure the 2020 Olympic games will be held in the US. Just because it would have been some time since they where held there and that's where the large sponsorship dollars come from, But it doesn't look like any big City's besides Boston are bidding. St Paul is also exploring the option.

Should Chicago be bidding again for 2020, I'm sure they or even New York city would win the bid.

Hard to say if 2020 is even an option for Toronto after the amount spent in Vancouver. The summer games would cost quite a bit more, and the government might not be so ready to invest again.

From a CFL fan perspective, I see this as the only way for a new stadium(s) to be built in Toronto, with this being the only possibility of public funds going into the stadium as well.

Stadco didn't sell 99 year leases for advertising in the Skydome for no reason either. It's expected to be around for at least another 80 years.

[green4life]

Originally Posted by ricorider

That's only because you live in Sask. Fortunately I'll be old and senile before TO gets the Olympics. 2016 - Brazil. 2020 - eastern hemisphere. 2024 - US of A (That will be 28 years since they hosted a summer olympics. 2028 - eastern hemisphere again. 2032 - maybe TO.

Which is fine with me. TO doesn't have close to enough hiways etc for day to day living. The Olympics would be utter chaos.

How do you think Toronto and area will do hosting the Pan Am games?

[RIDERFAN04]

Originally Posted by greenmagic

Toronto wouldn't get more than 40,000 out for the majority of home games

Excactly. Building a larger capacity stadium won't help anything if they can't fill the Skydome for the recent Bills games.

[Stephen LaRose]

Originally Posted by MulderS

Hard to say, I was sure the 2020 Olympic games will be held in the US. Just because it would have been some time since they where held there and that's where the large sponsorship dollars come from, But it doesn't look like any big City's besides Boston are bidding. St Paul is also exploring the option.

Should Chicago be bidding again for 2020, I'm sure they or even New York city would win the bid.

Hard to say if 2020 is even an option for Toronto after the amount spent in Vancouver. The summer games would cost quite a bit more, and the government might not be so ready to invest again.

From a CFL fan perspective, I see this as the only way for a new stadium(s) to be built in Toronto, with this being the only possibility of public funds going into the stadium as well.

Stadco didn't sell 99 year leases for advertising in the Skydome for no reason either. It's expected to be around for at least another 80 years.

Are you sure you meant the 2016 Summer Games -- which went to Rio and Chicago was knocked out in the first round?

The last two Toronto Olympic bids have had Olympic stadiums that would become an NFL stadium after the games (96 and 08). But the Olympics have never been held in Africa, in an Arab country, and in India (a country with better than a billion people and a developing economy). My bet is we won't see a Summer Olympics in North America before 2040.

[green4life]

Originally Posted by Stephen LaRose

Are you sure you meant the 2016 Summer Games -- which went to Rio and Chicago was knocked out in the first round?

The last two Toronto Olympic bids have had Olympic stadiums that would become an NFL stadium after the games (96 and 08). But the Olympics have never been held in Africa, in an Arab country, and in India (a country with better than a billion people and a developing economy). My bet is we won't see a Summer Olympics in North America before 2040.

I'm guessing they'll be back in the US 2028 at the latest. IOC won't go 44 years without the US hosting a Summer Olympiad - not a chance.

As much as many regions haven't hosted it; money talks. And the television networks in the states; i.e. NBC and many worldwide Olympic sponsors (like Coke) pay a lot of coin and those $$$ go up if they know or know there's a strong chance the games will be in home time zone and more specifically in the States.

[McGreen]

Originally Posted by green4life

I'm guessing they'll be back in the US 2028 at the latest. IOC won't go 44 years without the US hosting a Summer Olympiad - not a chance.

As much as many regions haven't hosted it; money talks. And the television networks in the states; i.e. NBC and many worldwide Olympic sponsors (like Coke) pay a lot of coin and those $$$ go up if they know or know there's a strong chance the games will be in home time zone and more specifically in the States.

The summer olympics have been held in the USA four time since 1896 (the first modern olympic games). They were 1904 in St. Louis, 1932 in Los Angeles, 1984 in Los Angeles and 1996 in Atlanta. That would appear to be an average of once every 25 years. The longest gap is 52 years and the shortest gap is 12. However we live in a changing world in which more and more emerging nations are clamouring to host the games in an attempt to raise their world profile and stimulate their economies. I suspect that the next summer olympics held in the USA will be closer to the 52 year gap than it is to the 12 year gap.

[Guy from Ponteix]

Originally Posted by McGreen

The summer olympics have been held in the USA four time since 1896 (the first modern olympic games). They were 1904 in St. Louis, 1932 in Los Angeles, 1984 in Los Angeles and 1996 in Atlanta. That would appear to be an average of once every 25 years. The longest gap is 52 years and the shortest gap is 12. However we live in a changing world in which more and more emerging nations are clamouring to host the games in an attempt to raise their world profile and stimulate their economies. I suspect that the next summer olympics held in the USA will be closer to the 52 year gap than it is to the 12 year gap.

The TV dollars that make the olympics work have only been around for the last 20 -25 years. Those tv dollars come from USA. Using pre-tv era data as a guideline is not going to mean much.