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Regina Pats... 2017-18

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  • Originally posted by pappcam View Post

    Yep. It would have been great to see Brooks and Steel together in the Memorial Cup.
    Yep. With Hobbs and Wagner and Zabrovsky. Wow!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CanuckRider View Post

      It's how junior hockey works, typically. Look at Swift this year, they are worse than the Pats. Lethbridge will be weak in a few seasons too.

      2 of the picks the Pats got today are Swift's, which should be very, very high. Everyone knew these two would get moved but maybe not this early, or together. Paddock made off very, very well IMO.
      I don't think it was the greatest deal. They get Lethbridge's 1st round pick this year, which will be late first round and Swift's first pick next year, which could be high first round or middle of the pack, who knows. The 19 year old is a roster filler and the 18 year old may end up the same.

      While it might have been the best offer he had, it is far from a great get for a guy in the top 10 in scoring and another in the top 15.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ChuckT View Post

        I'm surprised they pulled the trigger so soon, and am disappointed in the return they got and I'm not sure I would have packaged them together. I think the return would have been greatly but trading them separately.

        But as it stands, they traded two top 15 league scorers, one of which is arguably the top 2-way centre in the entire league. And what did they get back?

        A decent 19 year old, who has no real future with the team unless they can trade him next year to a contender (or if they were smart, would explore doing it this year) and an 18 year old who they may, or may not be able to be flipped into something next year.

        IMO, they should have targeted some current 16/17 year olds. At the very least, the conversation should have started (or stopped) with if Boyko was included.

        Then they got the Hurricanes top pick this year (which based on where they finish is likely a very late first rounder), and the Broncos 1st, but in 2020. If it was their pick in '19, that would be huge getting the first overall. But with another year under their belt, the Broncos are unlikely to be a cellar dweller, meaning a mid-round pick. Sure they got a 3, 4, and 8th... but those aren't overly valuable.
        I agree. A rather weak return for these players.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ChuckT View Post

          I'm surprised they pulled the trigger so soon, and am disappointed in the return they got and I'm not sure I would have packaged them together. I think the return would have been greatly but trading them separately.

          But as it stands, they traded two top 15 league scorers, one of which is arguably the top 2-way centre in the entire league. And what did they get back?

          A decent 19 year old, who has no real future with the team unless they can trade him next year to a contender (or if they were smart, would explore doing it this year) and an 18 year old who they may, or may not be able to be flipped into something next year.

          IMO, they should have targeted some current 16/17 year olds. At the very least, the conversation should have started (or stopped) with if Boyko was included.

          Then they got the Hurricanes top pick this year (which based on where they finish is likely a very late first rounder), and the Broncos 1st, but in 2020. If it was their pick in '19, that would be huge getting the first overall. But with another year under their belt, the Broncos are unlikely to be a cellar dweller, meaning a mid-round pick. Sure they got a 3, 4, and 8th... but those aren't overly valuable.
          Can’t trade 16 year olds any longer and have to ask 17 year olds if they want to be traded.

          Comment


          • I think the trade for Henry and Leschyshyn is really good value for the Pats. No matter what position the Pats were in because of last years Memorial Cup.

            I think both Henry and Leschyshyn are great players. However, I think they have gotten the top line on the Pats simply because of the overall lack of depth on the Pats this year. I think their stats have been fluffed up by that. Also, they have more than likely been "show-cased" by the Pats and given all the plum opportunities to score and put up numbers.

            They are both two fine players though, and will be missed in Regina.

            The question for me now is, with Hyman being traded away earlier in the week, which if any Pats players who started the Memorial Cup final will be left on the roster after January 10?

            Holmes? I think he would definitely be a candidate to be traded, solid defensive forward. Currently hurt though, and not expected back before Christmas.

            Pouteau? 20 year old defensive forward. Is there a market out there?

            Schioler? Fairly talented 3rd pairing defenceman. Who also has played some forward with the Pats injuries lately.

            Paddock? Showed well in the Memorial Cup. Has not really played up to expectations so far. A couple of years left as a junior.

            Pratt/Moriseau/Mahovlich….a collection of third line/defensive forwards. Maybe not much interest here.

            Anyways, glad the Pats re-couped some draft picks. Gonna take a while to recovery from the Memorial Cup trades.

            Gonna hurt for this upcoming Bantam draft when Saskatoon has a lotto pick from the Pats from the Hebig trade.
            Last edited by chem_247; 12-01-2018, 07:54 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by chem_247 View Post
              I think the trade for Henry and Leschyshyn is really good value for the Pats. No matter what position the Pats were in because of last years Memorial Cup.

              I think both Henry and Leschyshyn are great players. However, I think they have gotten the top line on the Pats simply because of the overall lack of depth on the Pats this year. I think their stats have been fluffed up by that. Also, they have more than likely been "show-cased" by the Pats and given all the plum opportunities to score and put up numbers.

              They are both two fine players though, and will be missed in Regina.

              The question for me now is, with Hyman being traded away earlier in the week, which if any Pats players who started the Memorial Cup final will be left on the roster after January 10?

              Holmes? I think he would definitely be a candidate to be traded, solid defensive forward. Currently hurt though, and not expected back before Christmas.

              Pouteau? 20 year old defensive forward. Is there a market out there?

              Schioler? Fairly talented 3rd pairing defenceman. Who also has played some forward with the Pats injuries lately.

              Paddock? Showed well in the Memorial Cup. Has not really played up to expectations so far. A couple of years left as a junior.

              Pratt/Moriseau/Mahovlich….a collection of third line/defensive forwards. Maybe not much interest here.

              Anyways, glad the Pats re-couped some draft picks. Gonna take a while to recovery from the Memorial Cup trades.

              Gonna hurt for this upcoming Bantam draft when Saskatoon has a lotto pick from the Pats from the Hebig trade.
              They are going to ship whatever they can away is the reality and I'd assume both guys they got from the 'Canes (one for sure) will be dealt.

              But regardless, looking at the return they got for 2 top end talents, there is no chance they are getting anything in 1st back... and I'd say nothing in the second.

              Once you start getting into the 3rd and 4th rounds, you have as much luck as plucking someone off your protected list.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lester View Post

                I don't think it was the greatest deal. They get Lethbridge's 1st round pick this year, which will be late first round and Swift's first pick next year, which could be high first round or middle of the pack, who knows. The 19 year old is a roster filler and the 18 year old may end up the same.

                While it might have been the best offer he had, it is far from a great get for a guy in the top 10 in scoring and another in the top 15.
                This is the new norm IMO. Can't trade 16 and 17 year old so the trades/returns you've seen the past few years are gone.

                Comment


                • I think they potentially could have gotten more, but like Paddock said, if he waits for a better offer and either of those two get injured, he gets absolutely nothing.

                  Comment


                  • I was surprised at the fight the Pats put up Saturday night against PA, with a fairly poor lineup and a backup goalie in net. I expected to see some wow from PA and I was pretty disappointed. They're structured and play good D but they aren't anything special offensively.

                    Comment


                    • Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChuckT View Post

                        They are going to ship whatever they can away is the reality and I'd assume both guys they got from the 'Canes (one for sure) will be dealt.

                        But regardless, looking at the return they got for 2 top end talents, there is no chance they are getting anything in 1st back... and I'd say nothing in the second.

                        Once you start getting into the 3rd and 4th rounds, you have as much luck as plucking someone off your protected list.
                        I don't think you follow junior hockey that closely. The bantam draft is a huge crapshoot most years. for example:

                        3rd round:
                        Ty Lewis (13)
                        Cameron Hebig (12)
                        Auston Mathews (12) (yes from the Leafs)
                        John Quenville (11)


                        4th Round
                        Cole Lind (13)
                        Connor Hobbs (12)

                        5th Round
                        Morgan Geekie (13)
                        Kailer Yamamoto (13)
                        Lane Zablocki (13)
                        Austin Wagner (12)
                        Jessie Gabrielle (12)
                        Tyler Wong (11)

                        6th
                        Patrick Bajkov (12)
                        Cole Sanford (10)

                        7th
                        Garret Pilon (13)
                        Kieffer Bellows (13)
                        Brayden Burke (12)
                        Jake Debrusk (11)


                        8th
                        Body Wilms (13)
                        Dylan Fergusson (13)
                        Carter Hart (13)

                        Comment


                        • When betting on bantam age kids, literally every pick is a gamble. Mid round guys grow, some 1st rounders dont mature mentally and fall apart. Every single draft pick acquired is an extra lottery ticket and really valuable.
                          Teaching your father how to kiss since 1996.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tommy_boy View Post
                            I think they potentially could have gotten more, but like Paddock said, if he waits for a better offer and either of those two get injured, he gets absolutely nothing.
                            Both guys not even at a point per game pace after a half dozen games with their new team. I expect them to get better as time goes on, but I think the return is still pretty decent as I believe their numbers were inflated due to the Pats having absolutely no depth behind them.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by slightlyheavy View Post

                              I don't think you follow junior hockey that closely. The bantam draft is a huge crapshoot most years. for example:

                              3rd round:
                              Ty Lewis (13)
                              Cameron Hebig (12)
                              Auston Mathews (12) (yes from the Leafs)
                              John Quenville (11)


                              4th Round
                              Cole Lind (13)
                              Connor Hobbs (12)

                              5th Round
                              Morgan Geekie (13)
                              Kailer Yamamoto (13)
                              Lane Zablocki (13)
                              Austin Wagner (12)
                              Jessie Gabrielle (12)
                              Tyler Wong (11)

                              6th
                              Patrick Bajkov (12)
                              Cole Sanford (10)

                              7th
                              Garret Pilon (13)
                              Kieffer Bellows (13)
                              Brayden Burke (12)
                              Jake Debrusk (11)


                              8th
                              Body Wilms (13)
                              Dylan Fergusson (13)
                              Carter Hart (13)
                              No idea what your point is, but you basically proved mine... which is that you can find a player in any round, who can turn into a great player.

                              But chances, outside there top 5 picks (which are no guarantees see Popowich, Tyler) it's increasingly a crapshot. Fix-Wolansky is second in league scoring, Hagel is 5th and both were passed over in Bantam draft. Hell, I think Jake Bean was passed over in there bantam draft and know guys like Iginla and Weber were also passed over.

                              BTW - some of your names and where they were taken is directly related to the chances of them playing in the WHL, as opposed to NCAA (or another route) - that's the only reason guys like Matthews and Bellows would have both been high, high end picks. So yah... I know quite a bit about the league thanks.

                              The challenge teams are going to face though is being handcuffed on trading for younger kids. They can still make deals for young kids, they just can't be signed (or in the case of a 17 year old, as for a trade).

                              But typically getting an 18 year old back doesn't help a bunch a team like the Pats for example, a team looking to rebuild and those aren't guys that contending teams want to deal. So it's really going to bottleneck deals in future.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ChuckT View Post

                                No idea what your point is, but you basically proved mine... which is that you can find a player in any round, who can turn into a great player.

                                But chances, outside there top 5 picks (which are no guarantees see Popowich, Tyler) it's increasingly a crapshot. Fix-Wolansky is second in league scoring, Hagel is 5th and both were passed over in Bantam draft. Hell, I think Jake Bean was passed over in there bantam draft and know guys like Iginla and Weber were also passed over.

                                BTW - some of your names and where they were taken is directly related to the chances of them playing in the WHL, as opposed to NCAA (or another route) - that's the only reason guys like Matthews and Bellows would have both been high, high end picks. So yah... I know quite a bit about the league thanks.

                                The challenge teams are going to face though is being handcuffed on trading for younger kids. They can still make deals for young kids, they just can't be signed (or in the case of a 17 year old, as for a trade).

                                But typically getting an 18 year old back doesn't help a bunch a team like the Pats for example, a team looking to rebuild and those aren't guys that contending teams want to deal. So it's really going to bottleneck deals in future.
                                Perhaps I misinterpreted your post, I read it like you felt picks in the 3 round and beyond are worthless. I was just trying to illustrate that clearly wasn't the case. I added Bellows and Matthews more as a joke than an actual example of a legit example.

                                sometimes a trade for an 18 year old can work out amazingly for a player/team, look at Brett Leason in PA, that was a fantastic trade for P.A. they gave up a 3rd round pick to Tri-City last Season for him.

                                Comment

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