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Regina Pats... 2017-18

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  • Originally posted by Curwie View Post
    Do you guys think the pats will move guys like lechyshen and Henry to get some draft picks back?
    I suspect the Pats will hang on to them until just before Christmas at least. The Pats are likely going to be a bad team, but if by some surprise they are in a playoff race, I could see them being smart and keeping their assets.

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    • Originally posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post

      I hadn't heard that. So if a player is a signed 15 year old, but is playing Midget AAA, his rights can no longer be traded?
      That is correct. If a 15 year old is playing MAAA and has signed a Standard Player Agreement with a WHL team they cannot be traded. The primary purpose is to keep the kids in the same school (stronger focus on academics). I wouldn't be surprised if it's also an attempt to try and make the players look like less of a commodity in the on going minimum wage battles.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tommy_boy View Post

        That is correct. If a 15 year old is playing MAAA and has signed a Standard Player Agreement with a WHL team they cannot be traded. The primary purpose is to keep the kids in the same school (stronger focus on academics). I wouldn't be surprised if it's also an attempt to try and make the players look like less of a commodity in the on going minimum wage battles.
        The Midget AAA idea is strange though. If he is not in the WHL, he wouldn't change Midget teams simply because his rights were swapped from one WHL team to the other. So changing schools has no bearing on that idea. Your second point makes some sense, except 15 or 18 they are still a commodity.

        If academics is the focus, I wonder if they will change the rule about dropping players back to the protected lists and thus forcing them to play Junior A with whatever team holds their rights? No Junior A team is affiliated with a Major Junior team. So at age 16, a player may have signed with the Brandon Wheat Kings, but his Junior A rights belong to the Wenatchee Wild of the BCHL. If academics is the factor here, there is no way you could continue your schooling in Brandon, if you are playing in Wenatchee, Washington. Seems like they are making wishy-washy rules if academics is the focus. Major Junior and Junior A will never enter into a affiliation agreement, so there would never be the idea that the Pats would send their players automatically to Melville. The only way this could work is if the WHL aligned their draft and under 18 rules to Hockey Canada's rules as far as Junior A (and B) goes. In Junior A, a player under 18, must play in the province of his residence. So if the Pats have a player who lives in BC (I believe the residency rules applies to his parents' home unless they cede legal guardianship to someone, which does not happen with billets), he has to play in the BCHL. I don't believe in Junior A an Under 18 can be traded between leagues either. So the Pats can't coordinate a trade between Wenatchee and Estevan to send a 16 year old from the BCHL to the SJHL. I see this all the time in following the WHL and Junior A (mostly the AJHL), a player plays a handful of games in the WHL at 16 and then is returned to the WHL team's protected list and removed from the active roster (no WHL can send a player down to Junior A or recall him as they have no standing on his Junior A rights), to continue playing he returns to Midget or Junior A where ever his Hockey Canada residency is. So it would mean changing schools.

        I know the CJHL (or at least the BCHL, AJHL, SJHL and MJHL) would cry out if the WHL decided that they have a taxi squad for players like this and instead of them playing Midget or Junior A, they simply are like the Riders' practice squads. I am sure Hockey Canada would intervene and attempt to figure things out for the WHL. Also, I could see some players not going to the WHL at all, if when they are young, they are likely to land on the taxi squad, instead they would play Midget or Junior A and not bother with Major Junior. I know more and more Junior A is becoming an option for players and they would go the NCAA route instead of Major Junior. This happens more in the AJHL and BCHL than anywhere else in Canada, as the talent level in those leagues top to bottom are more competitive and have better scholarship opportunities than the rest of the country. Anyway, seems odd that the WHL is focusing on academics but still allowing players to be returned to the protected list and essentially released to play Junior A or Midget.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post

          The Midget AAA idea is strange though. If he is not in the WHL, he wouldn't change Midget teams simply because his rights were swapped from one WHL team to the other. So changing schools has no bearing on that idea. Your second point makes some sense, except 15 or 18 they are still a commodity.

          If academics is the focus, I wonder if they will change the rule about dropping players back to the protected lists and thus forcing them to play Junior A with whatever team holds their rights? No Junior A team is affiliated with a Major Junior team. So at age 16, a player may have signed with the Brandon Wheat Kings, but his Junior A rights belong to the Wenatchee Wild of the BCHL. If academics is the factor here, there is no way you could continue your schooling in Brandon, if you are playing in Wenatchee, Washington. Seems like they are making wishy-washy rules if academics is the focus. Major Junior and Junior A will never enter into a affiliation agreement, so there would never be the idea that the Pats would send their players automatically to Melville. The only way this could work is if the WHL aligned their draft and under 18 rules to Hockey Canada's rules as far as Junior A (and B) goes. In Junior A, a player under 18, must play in the province of his residence. So if the Pats have a player who lives in BC (I believe the residency rules applies to his parents' home unless they cede legal guardianship to someone, which does not happen with billets), he has to play in the BCHL. I don't believe in Junior A an Under 18 can be traded between leagues either. So the Pats can't coordinate a trade between Wenatchee and Estevan to send a 16 year old from the BCHL to the SJHL. I see this all the time in following the WHL and Junior A (mostly the AJHL), a player plays a handful of games in the WHL at 16 and then is returned to the WHL team's protected list and removed from the active roster (no WHL can send a player down to Junior A or recall him as they have no standing on his Junior A rights), to continue playing he returns to Midget or Junior A where ever his Hockey Canada residency is. So it would mean changing schools.

          I know the CJHL (or at least the BCHL, AJHL, SJHL and MJHL) would cry out if the WHL decided that they have a taxi squad for players like this and instead of them playing Midget or Junior A, they simply are like the Riders' practice squads. I am sure Hockey Canada would intervene and attempt to figure things out for the WHL. Also, I could see some players not going to the WHL at all, if when they are young, they are likely to land on the taxi squad, instead they would play Midget or Junior A and not bother with Major Junior. I know more and more Junior A is becoming an option for players and they would go the NCAA route instead of Major Junior. This happens more in the AJHL and BCHL than anywhere else in Canada, as the talent level in those leagues top to bottom are more competitive and have better scholarship opportunities than the rest of the country. Anyway, seems odd that the WHL is focusing on academics but still allowing players to be returned to the protected list and essentially released to play Junior A or Midget.
          there is quite a difference between the general talent level of a player in the Major Junior system compared to the Junior A leagues. most of the players that are taking the option to play in the Junior A (BCHL seems to be popular) either wouldn't have made the jump to Major Junior or are planning to go the NCAA route, which usually means they are not as far along in development as the kids in Major Junior or are planning on getting an education first with a hockey career as a secondary thought. Kids that have played and are drafted out of the WHL are generally AHL/NHL ready at 18-20 where as kids that are taking the NCAA route are not likely to play in the Professional league until they are done there 4 years, so 22-23 which means a few more years of development. so the players taking the risk of playing in the more skilled league know they have a chance of moving on to professional ranks earlier and developing within there systems for a couple additional years before collegiate players become available. it can also be riskier for an NHL team to draft a kid out of the NCAA because they know the chance of getting them early is lower (Ex: Jimmy Vessey who was originally drafted by Nashville, he finished out his NCAA eligibility and then went on to sign as a free agent with New York). However the skill level across the board does seem to be growing, as some players just don't have the exposure to get pulled up to a higher league or the right situation hasn't arrived for them. In other cases a player may just be a late bloomer and gets passed over until they are older, there are so many factors in these kids it's unbelievable... one year a kid can be the next Mcdavid and the next year he's discovered he likes Mcdonalds and Girls more than he likes playing hockey and his play slips, other times a very talented kid that could be in the Major Junior may decide they don't want to move away from there family and friends and will decide to just stay at home and play senior hockey instead.

          Obviously some exceptions exist and there are a lot of talented players that choose both routes.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post

            The Midget AAA idea is strange though. If he is not in the WHL, he wouldn't change Midget teams simply because his rights were swapped from one WHL team to the other. So changing schools has no bearing on that idea. Your second point makes some sense, except 15 or 18 they are still a commodity..
            I'm not sure if it actually is academics or if they're just trying to make it more enticing to players over the NCAA. I suspect the MAAA thing is more to do with them actually being a signed 15 year old. For example, say a player is from Brandon or Manitoba and is drafted by Brandon or a Sask team and signs with them because he wants to play close to home. Now, he's 15 and playing MAAA and the WHL team he signed with trades him to Prince George.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tommy_boy View Post

              I'm not sure if it actually is academics or if they're just trying to make it more enticing to players over the NCAA. I suspect the MAAA thing is more to do with them actually being a signed 15 year old. For example, say a player is from Brandon or Manitoba and is drafted by Brandon or a Sask team and signs with them because he wants to play close to home. Now, he's 15 and playing MAAA and the WHL team he signed with trades him to Prince George.
              There is certainly an argument that has been made, that a major reason is academics. By 18, kids are graduated high school - meaning you are not moving a 16 or 17 year old kid during the school year, into a new setting and environment. I'm not sure I buy that reasoning fully, but I can see the attempted argument.

              But more importantly, I see anther reason. A team (by and large) sells a family on their organization (or even league). And what often happens after the players (and family) sign, committing to them? The team turns around and trades the kid to a team that the family never would have agreed to go in the first place. In a lot of ways, this change holds the team a lot more accountable to their promises.

              As the NCAA can't trade and rarely "cuts" a scholarship player, I'm sure they view this as a way to balance the playing field with those kids who are considering both options - which is increasing. That family assurance will be a big help in convincing players (families).

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              • Comment


                • Originally posted by Giventofly View Post
                  I hope we don't host the Memorial Cup again for a loooooong time. Lol

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pappcam View Post

                    I hope we don't host the Memorial Cup again for a loooooong time. Lol
                    It's how junior hockey works, typically. Look at Swift this year, they are worse than the Pats. Lethbridge will be weak in a few seasons too.

                    2 of the picks the Pats got today are Swift's, which should be very, very high. Everyone knew these two would get moved but maybe not this early, or together. Paddock made off very, very well IMO.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CanuckRider View Post

                      It's how junior hockey works, typically. Look at Swift this year, they are worse than the Pats. Lethbridge will be weak in a few seasons too.

                      2 of the picks the Pats got today are Swift's, which should be very, very high. Everyone knew these two would get moved but maybe not this early, or together. Paddock made off very, very well IMO.
                      Bang on. All that surprises me is that this trade happened so soon. The minute they dealt away the immediate future to make the run last year you knew Leschyshyn and Henry would be dealt at some point to restock things. I remember hearing tha one of the worst things that happened long term for the team was in 2002 where after they gutted the roster of prospects and picks for the 01 run, the team unexpectedly challenged for the division in 2002 meaning they couldn't deal off guys like Garth Murray.

                      As a fan I still lament how the timing of all this worked out. If only 2016-17 was the host year. That Pats team was better and they could have made more deals to put them over the top.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post

                        Bang on. All that surprises me is that this trade happened so soon. The minute they dealt away the immediate future to make the run last year you knew Leschyshyn and Henry would be dealt at some point to restock things. I remember hearing tha one of the worst things that happened long term for the team was in 2002 where after they gutted the roster of prospects and picks for the 01 run, the team unexpectedly challenged for the division in 2002 meaning they couldn't deal off guys like Garth Murray.

                        As a fan I still lament how the timing of all this worked out. If only 2016-17 was the host year. That Pats team was better and they could have made more deals to put them over the top.
                        Yep. It would have been great to see Brooks and Steel together in the Memorial Cup.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post

                          Bang on. All that surprises me is that this trade happened so soon. The minute they dealt away the immediate future to make the run last year you knew Leschyshyn and Henry would be dealt at some point to restock things. I remember hearing tha one of the worst things that happened long term for the team was in 2002 where after they gutted the roster of prospects and picks for the 01 run, the team unexpectedly challenged for the division in 2002 meaning they couldn't deal off guys like Garth Murray.

                          As a fan I still lament how the timing of all this worked out. If only 2016-17 was the host year. That Pats team was better and they could have made more deals to put them over the top.
                          I'm surprised they pulled the trigger so soon, and am disappointed in the return they got and I'm not sure I would have packaged them together. I think the return would have been greatly but trading them separately.

                          But as it stands, they traded two top 15 league scorers, one of which is arguably the top 2-way centre in the entire league. And what did they get back?

                          A decent 19 year old, who has no real future with the team unless they can trade him next year to a contender (or if they were smart, would explore doing it this year) and an 18 year old who they may, or may not be able to be flipped into something next year.

                          IMO, they should have targeted some current 16/17 year olds. At the very least, the conversation should have started (or stopped) with if Boyko was included.

                          Then they got the Hurricanes top pick this year (which based on where they finish is likely a very late first rounder), and the Broncos 1st, but in 2020. If it was their pick in '19, that would be huge getting the first overall. But with another year under their belt, the Broncos are unlikely to be a cellar dweller, meaning a mid-round pick. Sure they got a 3, 4, and 8th... but those aren't overly valuable.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ChuckT View Post

                            I'm surprised they pulled the trigger so soon, and am disappointed in the return they got and I'm not sure I would have packaged them together. I think the return would have been greatly but trading them separately.

                            But as it stands, they traded two top 15 league scorers, one of which is arguably the top 2-way centre in the entire league. And what did they get back?

                            A decent 19 year old, who has no real future with the team unless they can trade him next year to a contender (or if they were smart, would explore doing it this year) and an 18 year old who they may, or may not be able to be flipped into something next year.

                            IMO, they should have targeted some current 16/17 year olds. At the very least, the conversation should have started (or stopped) with if Boyko was included.

                            Then they got the Hurricanes top pick this year (which based on where they finish is likely a very late first rounder), and the Broncos 1st, but in 2020. If it was their pick in '19, that would be huge getting the first overall. But with another year under their belt, the Broncos are unlikely to be a cellar dweller, meaning a mid-round pick. Sure they got a 3, 4, and 8th... but those aren't overly valuable.
                            I'm fairly certain 16 and 17 year olds can't be traded without them requesting a trade now. Picks and 18/19 year olds are the future for WHL deals. Swifts 2020 pick will probably still be a top 5 pick since that roster is a mess.

                            Betting on bantam kids to grow, improve, etc is a lottery. Get as many picks as you can and hope you hit.
                            Last edited by Danny Barrett Apologist; 11-30-2018, 12:19 PM.
                            Teaching your father how to kiss since 1996.

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                            • Originally posted by Danny Barrett Apologist View Post

                              I'm fairly certain 16 and 17 year olds can't be traded without them requesting a trade now. Picks and 18/19 year olds are the future for WHL deals. Swifts 2020 pick will probably still be a top 5 pick since that roster is a mess.

                              Betting on bantam kids to grow, improve, etc is a lottery. Get as many picks as you can and hope you hit.
                              True true... keep forgetting about that... lol

                              But all the more reason, that you don't package them both together.

                              Anyway, we'll see what the future holds, but both upcoming years are going tone bleak.

                              Comment


                              • Looking forward to the game Saturday if for no other reason than Its been a while since I was at a game and good or bad teams its entertaining to watch. I am also looking forward to some tasty rink pints!

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