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Rider Receiving Corps - 2019

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  • #46
    Originally posted by RealAlexD View Post

    While I am in big favour of this, I'll believe it when I see it. I can't see the PA agreeing to that.
    The CFLPA has done nothing in the past to stop the CFL from increasing import content - rosters are now more than 50% import; and they were not that in past very strong CFL days - 70s, 80s - when the league was outstanding and had more talent (IMO); back then, the CFL used to be able to raid more top notch American talent from the NFL, but the pay-days are now so different, and the CFL just cannot attract as much American talent when the NFL is there - with more teams now, bigger rosters, and way better pay..

    OTOH - the Canadian/NI talent pool has grown stronger than ever - more and better U Sports football programs (eg. Laval, Montreal, Regina Rams), still plenty of Canadian players get some strong US college ball training, and Junior ball is still going (see Andrew Harris, Zack Evans, Spencer Wilson) - there's plenty of Canadian talent to stock a 9 or 10 team CFL with rosters the way they are now or with an increase to National content, IMO. CFL team shills and their dupes in the media will differ though and moan about lack of Canadian talent. If that talent pool is so "thin" how does every CFL team pass on a chance to draft a Rob Bagg or Andre Durie or Kwaku Boateng or Jordan Herdman or that Ottawa kid who just broke the all-time pro record for consecutive FGs made ?

    If the typical good ole boy thinker running CFL teams wants the league to be even more American than it is now (gee, ya figure?) - they will get their way; and the CFLPA can do zip about it,
    Last edited by CC Ryder; 03-09-2019, 01:53 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Beacon.x View Post

      IMO that would be a massive mistake. At best, I believe that maybe a 10th team should trigger it going down one. Coaches and GMs are continually talking about how much the gap has closed in the last 10 years, and I think this would be a slap in the face of Canadian players coming up.

      I'd also say that RA pushing to further develop Canadians abroad might suggest that it is just a card he has in the deck that he can put into play so that he can negotiate with it. He was apparently pretty against it as a player.
      I can see the league suggesting a drop to in the ratio, but there is no way that it will make it to the CBA.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by El Guapo View Post
        Ball control is very useful, but only in certain situations. It can't be your regular offense all year long if you want to be successful
        Ball control doesn't mean you need to play football for dummies offense, Paul Lapolice, John H, Mark T, all used ball control types of offenses. They offences at times are boring, but they are consistent and do open it up when the opportunity presents itself. McAdoo playing not to lose or do a turn over isn't what you need or want.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by mikejth View Post

          Ball control doesn't mean you need to play football for dummies offense, Paul Lapolice, John H, Mark T, all used ball control types of offenses. They offences at times are boring, but they are consistent and do open it up when the opportunity presents itself. McAdoo playing not to lose or do a turn over isn't what you need or want.
          How much of that was McAdoo, and how much was it a Jones narrative... It's hard to believe that an OC that helped the team lead the league in Passing TD's and looked to have a rejuvenated Glenn performing above expectations for the most part of the 2017 season, suddenly forgot how to score points and game plan in a year...

          The only thing that really changed last season was Jones focus on the Defense winning games for us, he was EXTREMELY confident in the defense, and mandated early that the O was to be conservative and not turn it over.

          We will see what happens this season.. I'd be okay with even 75% of the passing offence we had in 2017.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Itzgodzilla View Post

            How much of that was McAdoo, and how much was it a Jones narrative... It's hard to believe that an OC that helped the team lead the league in Passing TD's and looked to have a rejuvenated Glenn performing above expectations for the most part of the 2017 season, suddenly forgot how to score points and game plan in a year...

            The only thing that really changed last season was Jones focus on the Defense winning games for us, he was EXTREMELY confident in the defense, and mandated early that the O was to be conservative and not turn it over.

            We will see what happens this season.. I'd be okay with even 75% of the passing offence we had in 2017.
            The whole game plan for the first 3/4 of a season, was short dump passes. Sure may say that was because of Bridge but it also applied to Zach. Look at the difference between the Ottawa and Toronto games. All of a sudden his passing average yards went up 3 yards per game. That is game planning.

            McAdoo - 2016 wouldn't run the ball, despite having a weak oline that would have benefitted from running the ball.
            2017 having Glen, running improved still not great, but had an open passing game. We were last in rushing.
            2018 run first offense with dump passes. Interestingly if you look at Reilly's game log in 2015 there is a almost a similar point near the end of September (same as last year) where all of a sudden McAdoo started getting Reilly to throw further down field.

            To imply that McAdoo has used the same offensive scheme for the time he has been here, no I don't think so.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by mikejth View Post

              The whole game plan for the first 3/4 of a season, was short dump passes. Sure may say that was because of Bridge but it also applied to Zach. Look at the difference between the Ottawa and Toronto games. All of a sudden his passing average yards went up 3 yards per game. That is game planning.

              McAdoo - 2016 wouldn't run the ball, despite having a weak oline that would have benefitted from running the ball.
              2017 having Glen, running improved still not great, but had an open passing game. We were last in rushing.
              2018 run first offense with dump passes. Interestingly if you look at Reilly's game log in 2015 there is a almost a similar point near the end of September (same as last year) where all of a sudden McAdoo started getting Reilly to throw further down field.

              To imply that McAdoo has used the same offensive scheme for the time he has been here, no I don't think so.
              I didn't say he used the same system... I said I find it hard to beleive the guy who had success in 2017, and has had success in the past, suddenly forgot how to game plan.... If there is one thing I would criticize McAdoo about, is not being fluid in his game plan, and by that I mean, not adjusting to what the defense is giving, or like the Winnipeg game what the defense knows you are going to do...

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Itzgodzilla View Post

                I didn't say he used the same system... I said I find it hard to beleive the guy who had success in 2017, and has had success in the past, suddenly forgot how to game plan.... If there is one thing I would criticize McAdoo about, is not being fluid in his game plan, and by that I mean, not adjusting to what the defense is giving, or like the Winnipeg game what the defense knows you are going to do...
                as i said look at the stats both Zach and Reilly experienced the same sudden increase at approximately the same point in the season. is that because he had to change it or was it because both qbs suddenly had the light bulb come on and they could run it that much better.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by mikejth View Post

                  as i said look at the stats both Zach and Reilly experienced the same sudden increase at approximately the same point in the season. is that because he had to change it or was it because both qbs suddenly had the light bulb come on and they could run it that much better.
                  I do not disagree, and have said ever since McAdoo and Jones came in to SK, that their styles are start slow and build for the playoffs.... They always come out conservative, and play conservative until later in the season, when they start to add new looks and changes things up or open it up a bit... The issue I take is with you implying that 2018 was ALL on McAdoo's game plan... which is the part I have a hard time believing... a rookie OC maybe they swing the pendulum to far each year, but the guy isn't new to it.... I am holding judgement on who's fault the anemic offence was until I have seen the O and how it operates post-Jones...

                  For as much as Jones would say he wasn't involved in the Offensive discussion, I could imagine the conversation behind closed doors was more along the line of "Do what you want, but you better not put my defense in a bad spot, so maybe just run heavy ball control, don't let me tell you how to run your offence, but don't mess with my defensive success". This is all speculation of course, and is based solely on the information I have gathered around the dynamic of the team under Jones.

                  Well oiled ships are only as good as the man at the helm...
                  Last edited by Itzgodzilla; 03-11-2019, 01:22 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Itzgodzilla View Post

                    I do not disagree, and have said ever since McAdoo and Jones came in to SK, that their styles are start slow and build for the playoffs.... They always come out conservative, and play conservative until later in the season, when they start to add new looks and changes things up or open it up a bit... The issue I take is with you implying that 2018 was ALL on McAdoo's game plan... which is the part I have a hard time believing... a rookie OC maybe they swing the pendulum to far each year, but the guy isn't new to it.... I am holding judgement on who's fault the anemic offence was until I have seen the O and how it operates post-Jones...

                    For as much as Jones would say he wasn't involved in the Offensive discussion, I could imagine the conversation behind closed doors was more along the line of "Do what you want, but you better not put my defense in a bad spot, so maybe just run heavy ball control, don't let me tell you how to run your offence, but don't mess with my defensive success". This is all speculation of course, and is based solely on the information I have gathered around the dynamic of the team under Jones.

                    Well oiled ships are only as good as the man at the helm...
                    While I agree that Jones had input into the style and direction, I believe based on the body of evidence that he let McAdoo run his own ship. There was a game last year I believe it was the mic'd up game, the riders were down close to end zone, Jones was clearly heard as saying "I don't care what you do, but I need the touchdown". If that isn't telling enough, there were more then enough rumors / comments that circulated around not only Bridge's play. Bridge was asked about the conservative play of the offence he indicated the media should be asking the coaching staff not him. Carter's dismissal, as many have hinted Carter was loud mouth in the dressing room, but there team members that supported his stand when he asked McAdoo why they weren't opening up the offence. They couldn't come public even in the team room without fear of reprisal. When the head coach's mantra my way or highway is funneled down to become the mantra of the OC, it is easy to see why McAdoo had control.

                    Sure Jones, didn't want the offense giving up the ball. But if that was the problem, then why not work them. Similar to what Austin did with Richie Hall in 2007 when the riders went into the mini slump in the middle of the season. Jones left McAdoo to his own devices and that is why you see 3 so totally different schemes.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mikejth View Post

                      While I agree that Jones had input into the style and direction, I believe based on the body of evidence that he let McAdoo run his own ship. There was a game last year I believe it was the mic'd up game, the riders were down close to end zone, Jones was clearly heard as saying "I don't care what you do, but I need the touchdown". If that isn't telling enough, there were more then enough rumors / comments that circulated around not only Bridge's play. Bridge was asked about the conservative play of the offence he indicated the media should be asking the coaching staff not him. Carter's dismissal, as many have hinted Carter was loud mouth in the dressing room, but there team members that supported his stand when he asked McAdoo why they weren't opening up the offence. They couldn't come public even in the team room without fear of reprisal. When the head coach's mantra my way or highway is funneled down to become the mantra of the OC, it is easy to see why McAdoo had control.

                      Sure Jones, didn't want the offense giving up the ball. But if that was the problem, then why not work them. Similar to what Austin did with Richie Hall in 2007 when the riders went into the mini slump in the middle of the season. Jones left McAdoo to his own devices and that is why you see 3 so totally different schemes.
                      I'd like to point out that you are assuming McAdoo was the reason for the dismissal... Questioning the OC who is doing what the HC wants him to do is questioning the HC himself, and as you pointed out Jones is a 'my way or the highway' kind of guy.

                      Your mic'd up comment can be looked at another way... if Jones was letting McAdoo run the offence the way he saw fit, then why would anyone be asking or telling Jones what play they were going to do on Offence? Clearly he felt it either needed to be cleared by the boss or was going to displease Jones is some way.

                      Again, guys who take on as many roles as Jones had here, and are almost addicted to control, can almost sabotage themselves by micro-managing other areas, while not realizing they are doing it at all or by being so paranoid about 1 thing they essentially make it a self-fulfilling destiny.

                      Look to history as an example, Hitler took control from his Generals late in WW2 because their great Offensive was faltering, this in turn helped lead to the faster demise of Nazi plagued Germany.

                      With all that said, maybe McAdoo is the root of all evil, and his Offence fails to impress, or improve, again this season.... Well in that case I think it is safe to say he won't be with the team anymore. Jury is out until we know know what the offence will be in 2019.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mikejth View Post

                        While I agree that Jones had input into the style and direction, I believe based on the body of evidence that he let McAdoo run his own ship. There was a game last year I believe it was the mic'd up game, the riders were down close to end zone, Jones was clearly heard as saying "I don't care what you do, but I need the touchdown". If that isn't telling enough, there were more then enough rumors / comments that circulated around not only Bridge's play. Bridge was asked about the conservative play of the offence he indicated the media should be asking the coaching staff not him. Carter's dismissal, as many have hinted Carter was loud mouth in the dressing room, but there team members that supported his stand when he asked McAdoo why they weren't opening up the offence. They couldn't come public even in the team room without fear of reprisal. When the head coach's mantra my way or highway is funneled down to become the mantra of the OC, it is easy to see why McAdoo had control.

                        Sure Jones, didn't want the offense giving up the ball. But if that was the problem, then why not work them. Similar to what Austin did with Richie Hall in 2007 when the riders went into the mini slump in the middle of the season. Jones left McAdoo to his own devices and that is why you see 3 so totally different schemes.
                        I agree that McAdoo probably ran his own offence just as the offensive coordinators were in charge of the offence under Chamblin. Corey said as much during several interviews IIRC. Of course the selection or retention of the OC would suggest that the head coach valued or agreed with the general philosophy of his offensive coordinator and would be someone who he could trust.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Rider_Stronson View Post
                          Riders like the new WR they just signed, Kyle Davis. Keep an eye on him.

                          Where I see a deficiency is at CDN WR. Not enough depth imo.
                          I agree that Kyle Davis will be an intriguing addition to the Riders. I expect good things from him. He has less mileage which suggests that he does not carry as many injuries. Team violations can be for some very minor situations sometimes. He will be motivated to get to the NFL and will I think surprise some here.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Itzgodzilla View Post

                            I'd like to point out that you are assuming McAdoo was the reason for the dismissal... Questioning the OC who is doing what the HC wants him to do is questioning the HC himself, and as you pointed out Jones is a 'my way or the highway' kind of guy.

                            Your mic'd up comment can be looked at another way... if Jones was letting McAdoo run the offence the way he saw fit, then why would anyone be asking or telling Jones what play they were going to do on Offence? Clearly he felt it either needed to be cleared by the boss or was going to displease Jones is some way.

                            Again, guys who take on as many roles as Jones had here, and are almost addicted to control, can almost sabotage themselves by micro-managing other areas, while not realizing they are doing it at all or by being so paranoid about 1 thing they essentially make it a self-fulfilling destiny.

                            Look to history as an example, Hitler took control from his Generals late in WW2 because their great Offensive was faltering, this in turn helped lead to the faster demise of Nazi plagued Germany.

                            With all that said, maybe McAdoo is the root of all evil, and his Offence fails to impress, or improve, again this season.... Well in that case I think it is safe to say he won't be with the team anymore. Jury is out until we know know what the offence will be in 2019.
                            To be clear because I want to understand everything you are saying:

                            1. Jones directed McAdoo to run an ineffective offense and really didn't start opening things up till 11th or 12th game of the season.
                            2. Jones controlled what McAdoo despite saying on multiple occasions he let his coordinators do their job.
                            3. In terms of the mic'd up comment, if you watch Jones when the offense is on the field he isn't talking that much up to McAdoo. But I guess it could be McAdoo asking Jones if he should run his normal game plan play or something else. And Jones responds he doesn't care as long as there is a touchdown. Now if McAdoo had to ask for permission to run a play then why in on earth would he be an OC.
                            4. In terms of the Carter incident, again not only have a number of other individuals hinted at it, but so did Bridges and few others that you didn't ask questions of McAdoo. It was telling when Bridge responded to the reporters to ask the coaches why the game was so conservative. No one wanted to be the next Carter being cut loose. In your opinion the fact the OC had players who likely would have questioned him but didn't because of fear was because of Jones. I disagree, it is McAdoo issue if players can't discuss what is going on, as on OC he needs to be able to communicate with them.

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                            • #59
                              As Iíve mentioned in another thread - If the starting Canadians go down to 5 that changes our receiving core - we presently donít have the depth there and Iím thinking we go with an all American receiving core now.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by mikejth View Post

                                To be clear because I want to understand everything you are saying:

                                1. Jones directed McAdoo to run an ineffective offense and really didn't start opening things up till 11th or 12th game of the season.
                                2. Jones controlled what McAdoo despite saying on multiple occasions he let his coordinators do their job.
                                3. In terms of the mic'd up comment, if you watch Jones when the offense is on the field he isn't talking that much up to McAdoo. But I guess it could be McAdoo asking Jones if he should run his normal game plan play or something else. And Jones responds he doesn't care as long as there is a touchdown. Now if McAdoo had to ask for permission to run a play then why in on earth would he be an OC.
                                4. In terms of the Carter incident, again not only have a number of other individuals hinted at it, but so did Bridges and few others that you didn't ask questions of McAdoo. It was telling when Bridge responded to the reporters to ask the coaches why the game was so conservative. No one wanted to be the next Carter being cut loose. In your opinion the fact the OC had players who likely would have questioned him but didn't because of fear was because of Jones. I disagree, it is McAdoo issue if players can't discuss what is going on, as on OC he needs to be able to communicate with them.
                                1. Jones directed McAdoo to run an ineffective offense and really didn't start opening things up till 11th or 12th game of the season.
                                I think it is the normal game plan for both Jones and McAdoo to run conservative 'until it matters'. By that I mean they don't pull out a bunch of trick plays, or really try to light up the opposition with fancy things, they go out and execute their A,B,C plan, and hope it is done well enough to win. in 2018, we saw the defense hit a stride early, and despite not showing a ton of new looks or really changing things up, unless it was a serious contender in the division, we had success on that side of the ball... the offence was struggling without veteran leadership, and the rookies took a little while to get a groove, we saw near the end of the season that they were starting to be a lot better, and with some unfortunate injuries at QB, we just weren't able to put it all together. Typically, around LDC you start to see a little more variety in the playbook... this drives fans crazy as we are either too pass focused or too run focused to start, and changes are slow to adjust.
                                2. Jones controlled what McAdoo despite saying on multiple occasions he let his coordinators do their job.
                                Classic controller syndrome.. I said that he likely didn't even realize he was micro managing, when your personality is to try to control everythign you can, sometimes it is hard to see you are also causing ripples in other peoples ponds.
                                3. In terms of the mic'd up comment, if you watch Jones when the offense is on the field he isn't talking that much up to McAdoo. But I guess it could be McAdoo asking Jones if he should run his normal game plan play or something else. And Jones responds he doesn't care as long as there is a touchdown. Now if McAdoo had to ask for permission to run a play then why in on earth would he be an OC.
                                Is this not a question we ask our selves on this board often?? WHY IS HE OUR OC? Perhaps it was because he was Jones' yes man for so long, because he would do what Jones wanted? Jones didn't strike me as the type of guy who keeps ineffective people around, unless that person was totally loyal and basically did whatever Jones wanted. I have seen this with managers in many industries... If Mcadoo was REALLY a problem, or as bad as some think he is, then I guess we will see it this season without his handler / defender...right?
                                4. In terms of the Carter incident, again not only have a number of other individuals hinted at it, but so did Bridges and few others that you didn't ask questions of McAdoo. It was telling when Bridge responded to the reporters to ask the coaches why the game was so conservative. No one wanted to be the next Carter being cut loose. In your opinion the fact the OC had players who likely would have questioned him but didn't because of fear was because of Jones. I disagree, it is McAdoo issue if players can't discuss what is going on, as on OC he needs to be able to communicate with them.
                                Right, so because no one specifically said "talk to our OC" or "Talk to McAdoo" we need to instantly assume a player coming from the offensive side of the ball is referring only to the OC... perhaps the players were getting mad at their entire game plan being neutered by powers beyond the O. There were a few games were the O really came alive, and had some creative game planning, but then right after that it seemed to work its way back into a shell.

                                Why would you assume that they were afraid of McAdoo cutting them or questioning McAdoo, when you just said it.... "but didn't because of fear was because of Jones"... Why would they need to be afraid of Jones if he was letting McAdoo run the Offence completely, as you mentioned he stated several times... wierd to think that a player would be more afraid of the GM/HC who is saying he lets the OC run the O the way he wants, then he they are the OC who would then hold their career in his hands.... I'll agree it is McAdoo's issue, but potentially more for not havign a "backbone" and standing against Jones a bit.


                                Or do you think the fear of Jones was so deep, that even the OL coach, WR coach, RB coach, QB coach, and anyone else that would have been gettign annoyed with this wouldn't take their concerns above McAdoo, if McAdoo was the real problem... the fact that Jones was able to come out and not be out-right furious that the O wasn't producing is pretty telling that he was at least someone fine with what was going on... There is no way a GM/HC, who's self-admitted goal is to win, sits back and says "I think we have a good group of talented guys, and we just need to put it all together. Stephen is a great coach"... what you would see are comments like what O'shea came out with along the lines of being more involved in the offence. a good coach doesn't pull further away from a potential problem area, unless he was already too involved in that area to begin with.

                                Just my 2 cents, but in 3 years of Jones, and following him in Edmonton prior, he doesn't strike me as a zen "it will be, what it will be" type of guy... that is why I think he had his fingers in the pie, if not from the start, then definitely after the loss to Ottawa in week 2.

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