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  • Challenge flag idea

    One of the other things that really ticked us off about what happened on the missed RTP was Jones having to burn his challenge flag. And we see that happen to other coaches in other games where you have to fix a blatant miss. So how do you account for that without bogging the game down with challenges like last year? If you get one right, you get another one? I like that but you could still then end up with a bunch late slowing the game down in the 4th.

    How about this? You get one per half. But it doesn't carry forward. If you don't use it, it's gone. Still not perfect but allows a coach to challenge a really obvious error and still be ok for the fourth.

  • #2
    Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post
    One of the other things that really ticked us off about what happened on the missed RTP was Jones having to burn his challenge flag. And we see that happen to other coaches in other games where you have to fix a blatant miss. So how do you account for that without bogging the game down with challenges like last year? If you get one right, you get another one? I like that but you could still then end up with a bunch late slowing the game down in the 4th.

    How about this? You get one per half. But it doesn't carry forward. If you don't use it, it's gone. Still not perfect but allows a coach to challenge a really obvious error and still be ok for the fourth.
    Not bad. Require that a timeout is still available and that it will be lost if the challenge is unsuccessful. That or have the 'eye in the sky' fix the blatant errors so challenges don't need to be wasted.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post
      One of the other things that really ticked us off about what happened on the missed RTP was Jones having to burn his challenge flag. And we see that happen to other coaches in other games where you have to fix a blatant miss. So how do you account for that without bogging the game down with challenges like last year? If you get one right, you get another one? I like that but you could still then end up with a bunch late slowing the game down in the 4th.

      How about this? You get one per half. But it doesn't carry forward. If you don't use it, it's gone. Still not perfect but allows a coach to challenge a really obvious error and still be ok for the fourth.
      Or you could just have the rule when the challenge flag is used for a player safety penalty and won the team gets one more challenge. This would cover RTP ,horse collar tackles and defenceless receivers.

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      • #4
        For me I think keep it the same but would be looking for the "eye in the sky" to be more involved with some calls.

        They already hold up the game for a spot or to see how moved first on offside, so why not broaden their scope.

        On a questionable hit there could be an automatic review if the ref doesnt throw the flag.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by I am Root View Post

          Not bad. Require that a timeout is still available and that it will be lost if the challenge is unsuccessful. That or have the 'eye in the sky' fix the blatant errors so challenges don't need to be wasted.
          I thought the Eye was supposed to catch all of the blatant misses. That one was so very obvious and they had extra time to look while ZC was down.
          In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.

          - Thomas Jefferson

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cflgridiron View Post

            Or you could just have the rule when the challenge flag is used for a player safety penalty and won the team gets one more challenge. This would cover RTP ,horse collar tackles and defenceless receivers.
            I also feel the penalty for losing a challenge needs to be higher... like loss of a time out and a delay of game penalty... but if you are successful, you keep the challenge flag.

            The bigger issues this year isn't the number of challenges... I could live with twice as many challenges.... but the accuracy of which those challenges are called.... one game it's a penalty, the next it isn't... one game the eye in the sky adjust the call on the field without any on-filed review being called for, the next they are silent while obvious penalties go unchecked.

            I understand that the later the season gets the more lenient the refs are with things like holding and DPI/OPI... but it should NEVER come at the cost of player safety... if it is a small shove, or some hand fighting, sure let it slide... but ALWAYS let that slide... don't let it go once and flag it the next time FFS (CGY I am looking at you)

            We need a dedicated crew of 3-4 personnel in the command center, and they do all the games, all the time. That way, at least they can follow their own precedent that they set.

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            • #7
              Teams have only one now, and they go fishing with it. Can you imagine Dickenson's histrionics with a "player safety" challenge flag in their pocket? The issue is not to increase challenges to offset bad officiating, it is to get better officiating. Adding more challenges just lets them (and the league) off the hook.
              It's professional sport. You're allowed to hate.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Artie-Lange View Post
                Teams have only one now, and they go fishing with it. Can you imagine Dickenson's histrionics with a "player safety" challenge flag in their pocket? The issue is not to increase challenges to offset bad officiating, it is to get better officiating. Adding more challenges just lets them (and the league) off the hook.
                Gov does have a great idea. Adding that extra challenge per half is not letting bad officiating off the hook it is holding them accountable.

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                • #9
                  I respectfully disagree. It's almost what we had before, which was horrible. All that this means is that we are practically inviting 2 fishing challenges each half, because the first half challenges cannot be carried over.

                  There's a saying that sad cases make bad law. This is kinda like that - yes, we could have been on the short end of the stick by having to burn a challenge early on a blatant-but-missed call. But to add 2 challenges to EVERY GAME because Proulx missed one call is way, way too much of an overreaction.
                  Last edited by Artie-Lange; 10-29-2018, 03:40 PM.
                  It's professional sport. You're allowed to hate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Artie-Lange View Post
                    I respectfully disagree. It's almost what we had before, which was horrible. All that this means is that we are practically inviting 2 fishing challenges each half, because the first half challenges cannot be carried over.

                    There's a saying that sad cases make bad law. This is kinda like that - yes, we could have been on the short end of the stick by having to burn a challenge early on a blatant-but-missed call. But to add 2 challenges to EVERY GAME because Proulx missed one call is way, way to much of an overreaction.
                    The challenge in the 2nd is dependent on winning the challenge from the 1st. Takes care of the fishing, and solves the issue with using it early on such a blatant call. It's relatively black and white and nobody can argue they should or shouldn't get another challenge (one could make that argument on hands to the face, or any of a number of others).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Itzgodzilla View Post

                      I also feel the penalty for losing a challenge needs to be higher... like loss of a time out and a delay of game penalty... but if you are successful, you keep the challenge flag.

                      The bigger issues this year isn't the number of challenges... I could live with twice as many challenges.... but the accuracy of which those challenges are called.... one game it's a penalty, the next it isn't... one game the eye in the sky adjust the call on the field without any on-filed review being called for, the next they are silent while obvious penalties go unchecked.

                      I understand that the later the season gets the more lenient the refs are with things like holding and DPI/OPI... but it should NEVER come at the cost of player safety... if it is a small shove, or some hand fighting, sure let it slide... but ALWAYS let that slide... don't let it go once and flag it the next time FFS (CGY I am looking at you)

                      We need a dedicated crew of 3-4 personnel in the command center, and they do all the games, all the time. That way, at least they can follow their own precedent that they set.
                      Although I don't know about 3-4 personnel, maybe increasing it to two would be a start. The only times I have ever heard mention of the command centre official it has always been a reference to "one" person. Its obvious that one official isn't adequate. Maybe they are paying attention, maybe they are texting their wife/kids, maybe they are doing whatever. But review decisions that are at least a counsel of two would be an improvement over the current random decisions.

                      And actually the idea that came out of Calgary (Bo Levi I think) that said more than one challenge but a 5 yd delay of game penalty if they get it wrong.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I like the rule the way it stands now.

                        But CRF's modification has merit.
                        Rider QB Scrappin in Full Swing

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My suggestion...stick with one challenge per game. More is too many as we saw previously and only slows down the game, and then you get coaches using it as part of their game strategy.

                          The command centre / eye in the sky ref should be reviewing every play and should be calling any blatant missed calls (like PI or roughing) and should also overturn any marginal calls made by the refs on the field. The people in the booth have the benefit of the replays and slow motion, to see a quick replay of every play and make a call down to the field, to either call a penalty or to reverse a call on the field. The key would be - if you are calling a penalty it needs to be blatant (like the hit to Collaros) and if you are overturning a call on the field it also should be the same standard (was it a blatant call to begin with? If not, then overturn it). Get rid of the ticky-tack marginal calls that ruin the game.

                          And then to incent the ref's on the field - pay the team of on-field officials a bonus for each game IF they don't have any calls overturned, OR miss a blatant call that was then called by the booth. Ie....a $500 bonus to each team member of on-field officials to incent them to now make bad calls and not miss blatant calls. Ultimately this part is to try and improve the level of on-field officiating by incenting them. This should also help avoid the ref on the field thinking "I am not going to call it and just let the coach challenge it or the booth review and make the call".


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post
                            One of the other things that really ticked us off about what happened on the missed RTP was Jones having to burn his challenge flag. And we see that happen to other coaches in other games where you have to fix a blatant miss. So how do you account for that without bogging the game down with challenges like last year? If you get one right, you get another one? I like that but you could still then end up with a bunch late slowing the game down in the 4th.

                            How about this? You get one per half. But it doesn't carry forward. If you don't use it, it's gone. Still not perfect but allows a coach to challenge a really obvious error and still be ok for the fourth.
                            The challenge flag should only be for blatant errors. It should not be held onto like a "mulligan" card when coaches would like a do-over late in the game.

                            The fact that only about 50% of challenges are successful indicates it's usually not being used to correct egregious calls, but on borderline judgement calls. We don't need more of that

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One challenge is enough. Otherwise you're inviting the Dickensenís of the world to do what they do best... go fishing.

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