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Taman's Take: Elite teams require elite quarterbacks

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  • #76
    Originally posted by gilligan View Post

    You're conveniently leaving out a lot of the story.

    The Riders traded away the league's MOP, with the justification that Crandell performed just as well in the offence in practice, and could take over. It also showed some confidence in the young QBs ability to back up Crandell and perform if needed.

    Our 6-0 start to 2008 was wonderful, but our QB was not. Crandell managed to work his way off of a winning team. For some reason Jyles is considered the next man up, and is terrible. Finally we go to Durant, who shows great promise before a rib injury sidelines him. Welcome Michael Bishop.

    For the rest of the season, we rotate three guys, with Bishop being the main option. We don't hand the ball back to Durant when he's healthy, either due to lack of confidence in him, or just as a way to protect him from too much responsibility too early. The first home playoff game we hosted in 20 years ends with Bishop playing an awful game and being cut a day later, while Durant watches from the bench until it is too late to come back. I'd say there were some things about that year that are worth complaining about.

    In the long term, moving on from Joseph and making room to transition to a younger starter was the right move. It took a lot of guts to make that call. A lot of the rest of the QB decisions were poor. Our supposedly capable starting QB is cut half-way through the year, the man who won the backup job in camp proved to be far inferior to our 3rd string, and the stop gap measure we brought in mid-season was pretty much cut on his way off the field. We misjudged a lot of things in 2008, before stumbling into a good QB situation from 2009 onward.
    You conveniently leave out a lot of the story

    they also mentioned a Young QB named Durant that Kent had heaped praise on - only fans ignore names they don't know and CLING to the one they did CRANDEL who yes won a Grey Cup and Grey Cup MVP - and who was identified as the vet to bring the kid along

    6-0 start and Crandel got injured Jyles got injured and Durant got injured - Welcome Michael Bishop a guy who had been coached by both Miller and Lapolice so they asked for him - and a guy who happened to win 11 games the year before

    since when does the GM handle the decision of who plays QB week to week? The head coach played who he wanted - in that playoff game Miller played his guy Bishop - ET wanted him to play Durant it was UGLY and Tillman fired Bishop before he ever got out of the stadium

    if you don't like the QB rotation or the QB - Blame the guy who makes that decision the coach - Miller - not the guy who wanted Durant and fired Bishop immediately after the season ended which is when the GM takes over controlling the roster

    lets also not forget how KJ played that year and every year after nor forget KJ wanted to be paid like a premium QB and the Riders just were not going to do that - apparently a great decision

    we won 12 games that year - and you are nitpicking the overall talent? or the QB rotation because of injury? You are blaming the wrong guy

    Comment


    • #77
      So this is supposed to be about great QBs and for some reason many want to talk about Crandel who was set up as an example of about the only QB to win a Grey CUp and Grey Cup MVP and NOT be considered a great QB

      not sure why calling Crandel Not a great QB - created a **** storm but

      lets talk about a Great QB

      Doug Flutie- threw for over 5000 yards 6 times including twice over 6,000 yards - - talk about setting the bar for outstanding QB

      who else was an outstanding QB? How do they measure up?

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by gilligan View Post
        More to the topic, I loved the humour in Taman's column. He's obviously quite aware of the criticism of him, and is rolling with it.
        Self-awareness and a self-deprecating sense of humour... I could use more of that and so could a lot of us.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Rotor View Post
          So this is supposed to be about great QBs and for some reason many want to talk about Crandel who was set up as an example of about the only QB to win a Grey CUp and Grey Cup MVP and NOT be considered a great QB

          not sure why calling Crandel Not a great QB - created a **** storm but

          lets talk about a Great QB

          Doug Flutie- threw for over 5000 yards 6 times including twice over 6,000 yards - - talk about setting the bar for outstanding QB

          who else was an outstanding QB? How do they measure up?
          Austin was considered elite during his best years but was over-shadowed by Flutie. Should be in the Hall of Fame.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by McGreen View Post

            Well really the guy should hang his head in shame and never be seen in public again...
            When little kids on bikes riding by you take the piss with you, maybe you should.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Slowhand View Post

              Austin was considered elite during his best years but was over-shadowed by Flutie. Should be in the Hall of Fame.
              5 years passing over 4000 yards - including 6000 once and another over 5000

              5 is a great bench mark - anyone can have a good season or 2 but if we are talking great I think that is a good place to draw the line

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by gilligan View Post

                You're conveniently leaving out a lot of the story.

                The Riders traded away the league's MOP, with the justification that Crandell performed just as well in the offence in practice, and could take over. It also showed some confidence in the young QBs ability to back up Crandell and perform if needed.

                Our 6-0 start to 2008 was wonderful, but our QB was not. Crandell managed to work his way off of a winning team. For some reason Jyles is considered the next man up, and is terrible. Finally we go to Durant, who shows great promise before a rib injury sidelines him. Welcome Michael Bishop.

                For the rest of the season, we rotate three guys, with Bishop being the main option. We don't hand the ball back to Durant when he's healthy, either due to lack of confidence in him, or just as a way to protect him from too much responsibility too early. The first home playoff game we hosted in 20 years ends with Bishop playing an awful game and being cut a day later, while Durant watches from the bench until it is too late to come back. I'd say there were some things about that year that are worth complaining about.

                In the long term, moving on from Joseph and making room to transition to a younger starter was the right move. It took a lot of guts to make that call. A lot of the rest of the QB decisions were poor. Our supposedly capable starting QB is cut half-way through the year, the man who won the backup job in camp proved to be far inferior to our 3rd string, and the stop gap measure we brought in mid-season was pretty much cut on his way off the field. We misjudged a lot of things in 2008, before stumbling into a good QB situation from 2009 onward.
                I'm almost certain I recall being at a playoff game in Regina in 2007.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Rhetorical Surf View Post

                  I'm almost certain I recall being at a playoff game in Regina in 2007.
                  Oh wow, yeah. For some reason I was thinking that the new regime ended the Grey Cup drought in year 1, and the home playoff drought in year 2, but clearly they did both those in 2007. I do remember that 2009 broke a long drought for 1st place finishes. It still remains as the only time we've finished first since 1976.

                  After a string of 30 years with only one home playoff game, it was quite the luxury to host one for four years in a row.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by gilligan View Post
                    More to the topic, I loved the humour in Taman's column. He's obviously quite aware of the criticism of him, and is rolling with it.
                    As dire as the circumstances were I laughed at his interview when after getting fired he saw Cory Chamblin approaching and said "you're next". If he pulls out any sort of napkin or winnibego joke in an upcoming article....I would laugh so hard and major respect.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post

                      As dire as the circumstances were I laughed at his interview when after getting fired he saw Cory Chamblin approaching and said "you're next". If he pulls out any sort of napkin or winnibego joke in an upcoming article....I would laugh so hard and major respect.
                      I think it he does that, then I would know 100% for sure he reads here.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Rotor View Post

                        You conveniently leave out a lot of the story

                        they also mentioned a Young QB named Durant that Kent had heaped praise on - only fans ignore names they don't know and CLING to the one they did CRANDEL who yes won a Grey Cup and Grey Cup MVP - and who was identified as the vet to bring the kid along

                        6-0 start and Crandel got injured Jyles got injured and Durant got injured - Welcome Michael Bishop a guy who had been coached by both Miller and Lapolice so they asked for him - and a guy who happened to win 11 games the year before

                        since when does the GM handle the decision of who plays QB week to week? The head coach played who he wanted - in that playoff game Miller played his guy Bishop - ET wanted him to play Durant it was UGLY and Tillman fired Bishop before he ever got out of the stadium

                        if you don't like the QB rotation or the QB - Blame the guy who makes that decision the coach - Miller - not the guy who wanted Durant and fired Bishop immediately after the season ended which is when the GM takes over controlling the roster

                        lets also not forget how KJ played that year and every year after nor forget KJ wanted to be paid like a premium QB and the Riders just were not going to do that - apparently a great decision

                        we won 12 games that year - and you are nitpicking the overall talent? or the QB rotation because of injury? You are blaming the wrong guy
                        Who said I was criticising the GM for all of the QB decisions? Not everything is about ET.

                        Still, he was clearly wrong about two things. One being that Crandel was capable of replacing Joseph, even in the short term to bridge the path to a younger QB. The other being that Jyles was a capable CFL QB. He gave Miller a roster that had only one good QB option, and that option was completely unproven.

                        It wasn't ET's fault that Miller put Durant 3rd on the depth chart. It wasn't ET's fault that Durant got hurt. I don't blame anyone on the team for bringing in Bishop as a stop-gap given their situation, nor can ET be blamed for how the QBs were utilised after Bishop was brought in. However it is fair to blame ET for putting together a roster where an injury to our 3rd string QB left us that desperate to begin with.

                        You talk about how Kent heaped praise on Durant. ET also said that Austin had Crandel grading out nearly as well as Joseph in 2007, which was part of his justification for the trade. When he traded for Jyles, Tillman also talked a lot about how much Kent admired Jyles. So essentially he heaped praise on every single QB on the roster. That is understandable, as why would they keep guys they don't believe in? However, being right on only 1 out of 3 and ending up with a mess of a depth chart warrants some criticism, just as much transitioning the job to one of the top 3 QBs in franchise history deserves the praise you're giving.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by gilligan View Post

                          Who said I was criticising the GM for all of the QB decisions? Not everything is about ET.

                          Still, he was clearly wrong about two things. One being that Crandel was capable of replacing Joseph, even in the short term to bridge the path to a younger QB. The other being that Jyles was a capable CFL QB. He gave Miller a roster that had only one good QB option, and that option was completely unproven.

                          It wasn't ET's fault that Miller put Durant 3rd on the depth chart. It wasn't ET's fault that Durant got hurt. I don't blame anyone on the team for bringing in Bishop as a stop-gap given their situation, nor can ET be blamed for how the QBs were utilised after Bishop was brought in. However it is fair to blame ET for putting together a roster where an injury to our 3rd string QB left us that desperate to begin with.

                          You talk about how Kent heaped praise on Durant. ET also said that Austin had Crandel grading out nearly as well as Joseph in 2007, which was part of his justification for the trade. When he traded for Jyles, Tillman also talked a lot about how much Kent admired Jyles. So essentially he heaped praise on every single QB on the roster. That is understandable, as why would they keep guys they don't believe in? However, being right on only 1 out of 3 and ending up with a mess of a depth chart warrants some criticism, just as much transitioning the job to one of the top 3 QBs in franchise history deserves the praise you're giving.
                          There a couple of other points, the only person that has ever said bringing in Bishop was Miller's idea and request was Tillman. We all know how Tillman liked to include others in decisions he made (like trading Armstead and saying Austin was privy to the conversation). IMO, ET paniced in 2008, his projected starter Crandell got injured early and then demonstrated he couldn't run the offence he had been praised by both Tillman and Austin as being as good as Joseph. Injuries to both Jyles and Durant hurt the team more then the injury to Crandell. Durant demonstrated he was learning even under pressure. I doubt the decision to start Bishop was done in isolation, but it did rest with Miller, it was the one or two mistakes in his time with the riders that I believe he truly regrets. The other was the 2011 team that didn't fair well.

                          Oh forgot what was the amount we traded Joseph over oh, yeah $25K.

                          But as for Taman's comment about elite qb's yes his list is accurate. Some can argue that Willey was brought in to replace Ray....frankly that is planning for the future and which qb survived the elite one. Some can argue what happened in 2016 with Ottawa was Burris being moved out, sure he was, but an elite qb overcomes diversity and succeeds. The game he had in the cup showed he still had it, he ripped through the best defence in the league passing for 461 yards and putting up over 500 yards total offense.

                          People will blame him for everything that happened after 2013, which I agree he holds a big chunk of the responsibility. The question that has never been answered is the politics and games that were taking place behind the scenes in 2015. Did Taman really want CC gone after game 4, was he stopped, was it a ploy, or was he stopped and became his own casualty by a President that wanted everything from Hoppy days gone.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by go riders View Post

                            You do know where those "gently used suits" that Moore's collects go, don't you?
                            **insert side splitter emoji here**
                            The cram Nazi called. "No sammiches for you!"

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by gilligan View Post

                              Who said I was criticising the GM for all of the QB decisions? Not everything is about ET.

                              Still, he was clearly wrong about two things. One being that Crandel was capable of replacing Joseph, even in the short term to bridge the path to a younger QB. The other being that Jyles was a capable CFL QB. He gave Miller a roster that had only one good QB option, and that option was completely unproven.

                              It wasn't ET's fault that Miller put Durant 3rd on the depth chart. It wasn't ET's fault that Durant got hurt. I don't blame anyone on the team for bringing in Bishop as a stop-gap given their situation, nor can ET be blamed for how the QBs were utilised after Bishop was brought in. However it is fair to blame ET for putting together a roster where an injury to our 3rd string QB left us that desperate to begin with.

                              You talk about how Kent heaped praise on Durant. ET also said that Austin had Crandel grading out nearly as well as Joseph in 2007, which was part of his justification for the trade. When he traded for Jyles, Tillman also talked a lot about how much Kent admired Jyles. So essentially he heaped praise on every single QB on the roster. That is understandable, as why would they keep guys they don't believe in? However, being right on only 1 out of 3 and ending up with a mess of a depth chart warrants some criticism, just as much transitioning the job to one of the top 3 QBs in franchise history deserves the praise you're giving.
                              Crandel won games Jyles won games Durant won games that year - three QBS got injured - how would any team do if their 3 best QBs went down - I'm telling you they are not going 12-6 so the talent on that team is beyond question - we had not seen a team win 12 games for 38 years prior and we have not seen a team win 12 games in the 10 years since - you are talking nonsense

                              So you are upset that Austin graded Crandel out well? Or are you upset we were told about it?

                              you keep saying what a mess it was but we won 12 games - wake me the next time the Rider win 12 games -

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I wonder if the domain ETfans.com is taken?

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