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2nd Boeing 737-8 crash

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  • Originally posted by TheAxeMan View Post



    Ethiopian Airlines think of themselves as the elite Air Carrier of Africa if they have a chance to lay this off on Boeing of course they will try to.

    It is a long time till a final report comes out so I guess we will see who/what was responsible then.

    Also some Western world pilots that have worked for that airline don't always have good things to say about it.
    Ethiopian airlines is an elite air carrier in Africa. The country made a decision in the 80's to become one. Based on their location on the continent it made sense. They are highly regarded in the industry. Not everyone in that country is like the starving kids you see on TV.

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    • Originally posted by TheAxeMan View Post




      Cool it is all Boeings fault now. Nice to see the final report by you done so quickly.

      Also I don't see where I said a Western world pilot would have saved that particular aircraft...........
      The CEO of Boeing came out yesterday and said the company has taken FULL responsibility for both accidents. Probably be the end of his career but it was the right thing to do.

      Last edited by Sofaking; 04-06-2019, 09:12 AM.

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      • Originally posted by Sofaking View Post

        The CEO of Boeing came out yesterday and said the company has taken FULL responsibility for both accidents. Probably be the end of his career but it was the right thing to do.

        Nowhere in his statement did he say that. Completely 100% made up fake news. I've bolded the relevant sections

        His entire statement:

        April, 4, 2019

        We at Boeing are sorry for the lives lost in the recent 737 MAX accidents. These tragedies continue to weigh heavily on our hearts and minds, and we extend our sympathies to the loved ones of the passengers and crew on board Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. All of us feel the immense gravity of these events across our company and recognize the devastation of the families and friends of the loved ones who perished.

        The full details of what happened in the two accidents will be issued by the government authorities in the final reports, but, with the release of the preliminary report of the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 accident investigation, it’s apparent that in both flights the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, known as MCAS, activated in response to erroneous angle of attack information.

        The history of our industry shows most accidents are caused by a chain of events. This again is the case here, and we know we can break one of those chain links in these two accidents. As pilots have told us, erroneous activation of the MCAS function can add to what is already a high workload environment. It’s our responsibility to eliminate this risk. We own it and we know how to do it.

        From the days immediately following the Lion Air accident, we’ve had teams of our top engineers and technical experts working tirelessly in collaboration with the Federal Aviation Administration and our customers to finalize and implement a software update that will ensure accidents like that of Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 never happen again.

        We’re taking a comprehensive, disciplined approach, and taking the time, to get the software update right. We’re nearing completion and anticipate its certification and implementation on the 737 MAX fleet worldwide in the weeks ahead. We regret the impact the grounding has had on our airline customers and their passengers.

        This update, along with the associated training and additional educational materials that pilots want in the wake of these accidents, will eliminate the possibility of unintended MCAS activation and prevent an MCAS-related accident from ever happening again.

        We at Boeing take the responsibility to build and deliver airplanes to our airline customers and to the flying public that are safe to fly, and can be safely flown by every single one of the professional and dedicated pilots all around the world. This is what we do at Boeing.

        We remain confident in the fundamental safety of the 737 MAX. All who fly on it—the passengers, flight attendants and pilots, including our own families and friends—deserve our best. When the MAX returns to the skies with the software changes to the MCAS function, it will be among the safest airplanes ever to fly.


        We’ve always been relentlessly focused on safety and always will be. It’s at the very core of who we are at Boeing. And we know we can always be better. Our team is determined to keep improving on safety in partnership with the global aerospace industry and broader community. It’s this shared sense of responsibility for the safety of flight that spans and binds us all together.

        I cannot remember a more heart-wrenching time in my career with this great company. When I started at Boeing more than three decades ago, our amazing people inspired me. I see how they dedicate their lives and extraordinary talents to connect, protect, explore and inspire the world — safely. And that purpose and mission has only grown stronger over the years.

        We know lives depend on the work we do and that demands the utmost integrity and excellence in how we do it. With a deep sense of duty, we embrace the responsibility of designing, building and supporting the safest airplanes in the skies. We know every person who steps aboard one of our airplanes places their trust in us.

        Together, we’ll do everything possible to earn and re-earn that trust and confidence from our customers and the flying public in the weeks and months ahead.

        Again, we’re deeply saddened by and are sorry for the pain these accidents have caused worldwide. Everyone affected has our deepest sympathies.



        Dennis Muilenburg
        Chairman, President & CEO
        The Boeing Company

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        • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

          That is just a preliminary report, they wouldn't blame pilots yet, they will do that when the full report comes out if necessary.

          It's starting to sound more like MCAS was not even a factor in the crash other than the pilots thinking so and reacting to a problem that didn't exist - due to the recent media after Lion Air. That was a theory I heard early on but seemed to have been dismissed.
          The overspeed issue seems to be the primary problem.
          How do you get that? The plane would not climb becasuse MCAS kept pushing it down.
          Last edited by Slowhand; 04-06-2019, 10:30 AM.

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          • Originally posted by Slowhand View Post

            How do you get that? The plane would not climb becasuse MCAS kept pushing it down.
            Sorry, I meant to say 'was not even a primary factor in the crash'.
            It was a contributing factor after the initial problems, but I don't think it is the cause or played a role in the initial problems they were having.

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            • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

              Sorry, I meant to say 'was not even a primary factor in the crash'.
              It was a contributing factor after the initial problems, but I don't think it is the cause or played a role in the initial problems they were having.
              It was broken before the plane even got off the ground, it just didn't activate until the flaps were retracted, then all hell broke loose. If it had worked properly or the pilots had a way to just shut it off this accident wouldn't have happened period.

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              • Originally posted by TheAxeMan View Post




                Cool it is all Boeings fault now. Nice to see the final report by you done so quickly.

                Also I don't see where I said a Western world pilot would have saved that particular aircraft...........
                Cool where do I said that it is Boeing's fault ? The design was bad , the training was inadequate and they place the pilots in a predicament that they could have avoided.

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                • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                  That is just a preliminary report, they wouldn't blame pilots yet, they will do that when the full report comes out if necessary.

                  It's starting to sound more like MCAS was not even a factor in the crash other than the pilots thinking so and reacting to a problem that didn't exist - due to the recent media after Lion Air. That was a theory I heard early on but seemed to have been dismissed.
                  The overspeed issue seems to be the primary problem.
                  So MCAS pulling the nose down erroneously is a problem that didn't exist ? Why did Boeing issue the bulletin and fix the flight control software.


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                  • Originally posted by RFIOttawa View Post

                    So MCAS pulling the nose down erroneously is a problem that didn't exist ? Why did Boeing issue the bulletin and fix the flight control software.

                    Huh at Riderhard? If this plane did not have MCAS at all this would not have happened period. The pilots knew how to trim the plane and were trying desperately to do so.

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                    • RiderHard is comedy gold.

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                      • Excellent video with explanation and simulator.

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                        • Originally posted by RFIOttawa View Post

                          So MCAS pulling the nose down erroneously is a problem that didn't exist ? Why did Boeing issue the bulletin and fix the flight control software.

                          Lol, quote and bold something to argue with me after I already apologized because I missed a word in a sentence. Maybe read all the posts before making your snarky reply.
                          Bunch of know-nothing clowns piling on now.

                          I'll bow out of this thread until the final report is public and then you can all kiss my ***.

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                          • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                            Lol, quote and bold something to argue with me after I already apologized because I missed a word in a sentence. Maybe read all the posts before making your snarky reply.
                            PHP Code:
                            Bunch of know-nothing clowns piling on now 
                            .

                            I'll bow out of this thread until the final report is public and then you can all kiss my ***.
                            And what aviation experience do you have? I've never claimed to be a know it all when it comes to airplanes but at least I've actually flown one.

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                            • Originally posted by Sofaking View Post

                              And what aviation experience do you have? I've never claimed to be a know it all when it comes to airplanes but at least I've actually flown one.
                              Didn't you read his post? He's gone.
                              No teacher, cake are square, pie are round.

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                              • Originally posted by jenius View Post

                                Didn't you read his post? He's gone.
                                I've heard that from lots of people, including myself.

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