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2nd Boeing 737-8 crash

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  • Well beside the faulty sensors, the Boeing MCAS software only takes input from one of them which goes against the redundancy design of airplane. This AoA flight control is not something new; Airbus has had them on their planes for many years .They used to have issues with them earlier but their software module would take and compares multiple inputs before acting on it.

    The fact that Boeing is coming out with a "patch" to fix some of these issues including taking inputs from both sensors demonstrates their design flaw on this MCAS system. FAA clearly didn't see this through the certification process.

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    • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

      There are a LOT of safety options that are 'optional' on planes from a little Cessna all the way up to an A350.
      This one just hit the perfect storm of incompetent pilots, optional safety equipment, shoddy mechanics, and Chinese knockoff sensors. Twice.
      Never fly 3rd world airlines.
      I'm interested in what some of those safety "optional" items are on planes and why a company that buys, say an A350, wouldn't take them? I can see someone not taking a option if they are buying a personal Cessna cause they are making that decision for themselves, but an airline is making that decision for the millions of passengers that will fly on that plane, so it would be interesting to know why an airline would say "no thanks"

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      • Originally posted by flatlandriderfan View Post

        I'm interested in what some of those safety "optional" items are on planes and why a company that buys, say an A350, wouldn't take them? I can see someone not taking a option if they are buying a personal Cessna cause they are making that decision for themselves, but an airline is making that decision for the millions of passengers that will fly on that plane, so it would be interesting to know why an airline would say "no thanks"
        First of all believe it or not is Ethiopian airlines is a very well respected airline. The country made it paramount that they would be the go to airline inn the 80s

        the trim tab and it being automated is nothing new. The disturbing part for me is that the pilots had trouble turning it off.

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        • Originally posted by Sofaking View Post

          First of all believe it or not is Ethiopian airlines is a very well respected airline. The country made it paramount that they would be the go to airline inn the 80s.
          They are very well respected and a member of the STAR Alliance network. Itís what made me laugh when RiderHard called them 3rd World Airlines. While the country maybe, the airline operates at an extremely high level.

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          • Originally posted by Bingo_Arms View Post

            They are very well respected and a member of the STAR Alliance network. Itís what made me laugh when RiderHard called them 3rd World Airlines. While the country maybe, the airline operates at an extremely high level.
            The co-pilot had 200 hours total flight time. That is not going to happen on any major carrier in North America.

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            • Originally posted by RFIOttawa View Post
              Well beside the faulty sensors, the Boeing MCAS software only takes input from one of them which goes against the redundancy design of airplane. This AoA flight control is not something new; Airbus has had them on their planes for many years .They used to have issues with them earlier but their software module would take and compares multiple inputs before acting on it.

              The fact that Boeing is coming out with a "patch" to fix some of these issues including taking inputs from both sensors demonstrates their design flaw on this MCAS system. FAA clearly didn't see this through the certification process.
              The little bit of this that I understand leads me to believe the FAA just took a "yah, OK" approach to whatever Boeing proposed.

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              • Can't trust them 'Mericans

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                • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                  The co-pilot had 200 hours total flight time. That is not going to happen on any major carrier in North America.
                  There is such a pilot shortage worldwide, that there are going to be more and more 200 hour co-pilots. If you are young and want a guaranteed career in aviation, now is the time to get into it.

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                  • Originally posted by flatlandriderfan View Post

                    There is such a pilot shortage worldwide, that there are going to be more and more 200 hour co-pilots. If you are young and want a guaranteed career in aviation, now is the time to get into it.
                    It's crazy expensive like I mentioned to get into commercial aviation.

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                    • Originally posted by Sofaking View Post

                      It's crazy expensive like I mentioned to get into commercial aviation.
                      Only if you do it the crazy expensive way.
                      You can get your 200 hours for around $35,000 that's pretty cheap schooling comparatively.
                      Once you have your commercial you can hour up quickly making small wages as a flight instructor, or small operation pilot until you have the hours and experience that a NA company will hire.

                      Alternatively you could join the Air Force and get it free.

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                      • I agree with most of what you said. After the private a commercial isn't hard to get. The biggest difference is that you are allowed to charge for a ride and yes you are right you can build up your hours instructing. All of my trainers were doing exactly that instrument is hard and expensive. Then you throw in multi, complex type etc.... and it gets expensive real fast. The 150 grand I quoted also includes a degree which for whatever reason the airlines seem to want.

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                        • I have often wondered how the transition from mostly military trained pilots, to mostly civilian trained ones affects these situations.

                          One of the major points of military training is being forced to work in incredibly high stress situations. I don't believe civilian training can duplicate that.

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                          • Originally posted by Sofaking View Post
                            I agree with most of what you said. After the private a commercial isn't hard to get. The biggest difference is that you are allowed to charge for a ride and yes you are right you can build up your hours instructing. All of my trainers were doing exactly that instrument is hard and expensive. Then you throw in multi, complex type etc.... and it gets expensive real fast. The 150 grand I quoted also includes a degree which for whatever reason the airlines seem to want.
                            Well, North American/European airlines want that...
                            Alternatively you could get him in a $15,000 overseas 200 hour program and he could hop out of the Cessna and into a Boeing at Ethiopian Airlines.

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                            • Well that didnít take long. First lawsuit has been filed against Boeing today apparently. I imagine they are going to be paying out a lot in the next while.

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                              • First reports on black box confirm MCAS was activated on the Ethiopia flight. Yesterday, reporters went through the manual provided and it does not even indicate the system exists.

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