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2nd Boeing 737-8 crash

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  • Originally posted by Bingo_Arms View Post

    Boeing should be embarrassed and ashamed that this was “optional”. The lawsuits they are going to face from this will be massive.

    For crying out loud, they push an airplane that’s going to be the “next workhorse of the skies” and they have a pricing package that people can upgrade too that helps ensure it won’t crash?
    It would be one thing if this type of system had been on the aircraft all along, but the sold these as an upgrade requiring minimal extra training, added a system that can direct the plane to maneuver, and it seems made the part where the plane tells the pilot "I'm taking Over" as an option. Massive blunder.

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    • Originally posted by voice of reason View Post

      It would be one thing if this type of system had been on the aircraft all along, but the sold these as an upgrade requiring minimal extra training, added a system that can direct the plane to maneuver, and it seems made the part where the plane tells the pilot "I'm taking Over" as an option. Massive blunder.
      Huge blunder indeed. Boeing is already seeing cancellations on their 737 orders. Good, they deserve it.

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      • On the other hand you have to wonder about the airlines that passed on the "optional safety features." Just a thought.

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        • I think Boeing will figure this out pretty quick actually. I read today that the Simulator tests they have run on the Lion Air scenario would give the pilots about 40 seconds to decide to turn off the system. That is a very short time given the minimal training they had recommended by the company. It is certainly too little time to consult a manual or checklist.

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          • Originally posted by voice of reason View Post
            I think Boeing will figure this out pretty quick actually. I read today that the Simulator tests they have run on the Lion Air scenario would give the pilots about 40 seconds to decide to turn off the system. That is a very short time given the minimal training they had recommended by the company. It is certainly too little time to consult a manual or checklist.
            Here is a good example of reading something that was written by someone who misunderstood what they were writing about. And then further muddying things by not understanding what you are talking about.

            40 seconds is an eternity for a pilot in a situation like that. Do you know why the Lion air plane didn't crash on its previous flight? They were lucky enough to have a pilot from a different airline deadheading on the flight, and he did the CRAZY thing of actually looking in the manual and suggesting to follow the step that says 'Disable when malfunctioning'.

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            • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

              Here is a good example of reading something that was written by someone who misunderstood what they were writing about. And then further muddying things by not understanding what you are talking about.

              40 seconds is an eternity for a pilot in a situation like that. Do you know why the Lion air plane didn't crash on its previous flight? They were lucky enough to have a pilot from a different airline deadheading on the flight, and he did the CRAZY thing of actually looking in the manual and suggesting to follow the step that says 'Disable when malfunctioning'.
              Why they need to disable the system - software errors, faulty sensors, software logic?. Too many places where things could go wrong with this flight control system that they clearly didn't foresee and test extensively . Couple with lack of training and fault indicators, it is a recipe for disaster and ~350 people paid their lives for it. Boeing should own up to their boo-boos.

              The system was acting erratically and there is no business for airplane flying like that.

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              • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post
                FAA Eyes Consensus On 737 MAX Flight Approvals

                Looks like its safe to fly in a Max "again". I wonder how many changes they have completed...

                Sad that they can't be the first one to lift the operation ban because of a false narrative driven by social media pressure.
                Not what Boeing wants or needs at this time, but a mouse in one of these 737s would probably garner front page news right now.

                https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/southwes...uble-1.1235099

                A Southwest Airlines Co. 737 Max aircraft being flown to storage was forced to return to a Florida airport Tuesday after experiencing an engine problem, the carrier said.

                The engine “performance issue” occurred shortly after the Boeing Co. plane left Orlando International Airport at about 2:50 p.m. local time, said Brandy King, a spokeswoman for Southwest. The fault had “absolutely no relation” to the flight-control issue that prompted U.S. regulators to ground all 737 Max aircraft on March 13.

                The crew of Southwest Flight 8701 declared an emergency and landed safely in Orlando, the Federal Aviation Administration said in a statement. The FAA said it’s investigating the incident. The Max aircraft was being flown to storage in Victorville, California, and only the pilots were on board, Southwest said.

                Aviation officials in several countries grounded the Max after the plane’s Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, or MCAS, caused a Lion Air jet to repeatedly dive on Oct. 29 until pilots lost control and it crashed. An Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max followed a similar flight path before it slammed into the ground on March 10. The two crashes killed 346 people.

                A U.S. Senate panel is scheduled to hold a hearing Wednesday on the two disasters and federal oversight of air safety.

                Boeing fell less than 1 per cent to US$368.35 after the close of regular trading. The shares dropped as much as 3.1 per cent following initial reports of the Southwest plane’s emergency landing.

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                • Originally posted by DJR View Post
                  On the other hand you have to wonder about the airlines that passed on the "optional safety features." Just a thought.
                  This. I was just going to say this.

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                  • Originally posted by DJR View Post
                    On the other hand you have to wonder about the airlines that passed on the "optional safety features." Just a thought.
                    The FAA should have never allowed the sale of planes without the safety option. Public safety should be #1, not an option.
                    No teacher, cake are square, pie are round.

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                    • Originally posted by jenius View Post

                      The FAA should have never allowed the sale of planes without the safety option. Public safety should be #1, not an option.
                      There are a LOT of safety options that are 'optional' on planes from a little Cessna all the way up to an A350.
                      This one just hit the perfect storm of incompetent pilots, optional safety equipment, shoddy mechanics, and Chinese knockoff sensors. Twice.
                      Never fly 3rd world airlines.

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                      • Wow, someone here really loves Boeing. They can do no wrong.

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                        • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                          There are a LOT of safety options that are 'optional' on planes from a little Cessna all the way up to an A350.
                          This one just hit the perfect storm of incompetent pilots, optional safety equipment, shoddy mechanics, and Chinese knockoff sensors. Twice.
                          Never fly 3rd world airlines.
                          Huh? I've never read that and couldn't come up with on google either.

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                          • Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                            There are a LOT of safety options that are 'optional' on planes from a little Cessna all the way up to an A350.
                            This one just hit the perfect storm of incompetent pilots, optional safety equipment, shoddy mechanics, and Chinese knockoff sensors. Twice.
                            Never fly 3rd world airlines.
                            Didn’t Boeing build the plane? If so, isn’t Boeing to blame for the sensors?

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                            • Originally posted by lerriuqs View Post

                              Didn’t Boeing build the plane? If so, isn’t Boeing to blame for the sensors?
                              No. Social media forced Boeing to use cheap Chinese sensors. Get with the program.

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                              • Junk.

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