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2nd Boeing 737-8 crash

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  • Originally posted by C.M.Burns View Post

    This whole thing is baffling to me. The aviation industry has a well earned sterling reputation for amazing safety and performance, precisely by having (mostly) eliminated fusterclucks like this. Software guys falling back on the lame old “the software worked as intended” line is something I haven’t heard in forever when it comes to aircraft. And apparently the patch for the software - which is now supposedly going to be delivered in a matter of days - was bogged down for the past several MONTHS.
    Software guys? Maybe telling the pilots to turn the plane off and back on again was bad advise.

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    • Originally posted by C.M.Burns View Post

      This whole thing is baffling to me. The aviation industry has a well earned sterling reputation for amazing safety and performance, precisely by having (mostly) eliminated fusterclucks like this. Software guys falling back on the lame old “the software worked as intended” line is something I haven’t heard in forever when it comes to aircraft. And apparently the patch for the software - which is now supposedly going to be delivered in a matter of days - was bogged down for the past several MONTHS.
      Interestingly enough I did read that part of the delay was due to the government shutdown in the US as the FAA took a hit on that.

      The craziest part of this all, is the problematic system was clearly created for the right reasons. It was meant to increase safety of this plane. It just wasn’t properly reviewed/tested/approved so they didn’t catch the potential problem. Add in Boeing keeping training costs to a minimum to keep market share from Airbus/Bombardier and you have this perfect storm.
      Boeing will survive this. They make a great product for the most part, but I bet they pay pretty hefty for this incident.

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      • Originally posted by C.M.Burns View Post

        This whole thing is baffling to me. The aviation industry has a well earned sterling reputation for amazing safety and performance, precisely by having (mostly) eliminated fusterclucks like this. Software guys falling back on the lame old “the software worked as intended” line is something I haven’t heard in forever when it comes to aircraft. And apparently the patch for the software - which is now supposedly going to be delivered in a matter of days - was bogged down for the past several MONTHS.
        According to the transport minster all the Canadian pilots got training on how to deal with this type of issue 6 months ago after the first crash. These planes should have being grounded 6 months ago as they obviously were a timebomb waiting to crash again.

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        • Originally posted by Kokanee View Post

          I really think you’re going to have to back off the continual defense of the system. It’s becoming clearer every day there was a major ball dropped both in the system implementation as well as the training provided. MCAS was an entirely new system. The pilots were not advised it even existed originally. Yes auto trim was in place before, but it could be easily overridden. MCAS isn’t, as it automatically resets when overridden, and then compensates even further, continually compounding the problem. I encourage you to read up a bit more on the new changes, as an aeronautics fan you would enjoy it.
          Also it has been confirmed the MCAS system only took the input from one angle of attack sensor. It was deemed not necessary to have the second sensor input.
          Much like the Comey investigation I will refrain from arguing with people who want to push emotion and misunderstood knowledge in the face of facts.
          When the investigation(s) are over I'm fairly confident I will be right. Again.

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          • Originally posted by Magnum View Post

            Software guys? Maybe telling the pilots to turn the plane off and back on again was bad advise.
            It seems to defeat the purpose of the whole system. It's designed to help the pilot with the troubled plan and the first thing everyone hears about this system is how to turn it off.

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            • Originally posted by Scotty c View Post
              Pretty damning article in regards to oversight and timing on this whole issue related to both Boeing and the FAA.

              https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/
              I just read it also wondered if it was being discussed here. Seems like Boeing and the FAA were humming loudly with their fingers in their ears hoping all the noise, noise, noise would go away.

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              • Justice department has issued subpoenas as part of criminal investigation into the certification of the Max

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                • Originally posted by voice of reason View Post
                  Justice department has issued subpoenas as part of criminal investigation into the certification of the Max
                  The fact that Boing was allowed to sell safety features as add-ons is a big red flag. I am leaning towards the CEO should be charged with Murder.

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                  • Originally posted by Cflgridiron View Post

                    The fact that Boing was allowed to sell safety features as add-ons is a big red flag. I am leaning towards the CEO should be charged with Murder.
                    Great, "optional" feature that could prevent the lost of ~350 lives. Hefty price to pay now.
                    Also no mention of this new feature in the user manual until after the first crash.
                    Some corners were cut just to get these planes out of the door quick


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                    • Not surprising but wow has Boeing’s stock ever tumbled. It was around $440 on March 1 and is down to under $370 now.

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                      • Originally posted by Bingo_Arms View Post
                        Not surprising but wow has Boeing’s stock ever tumbled. It was around $440 on March 1 and is down to under $370 now.
                        It will no doubt be taking further beating once the airlines starting to cancel the order which already started with Indonesia Garuda Air (due to "consumer's lost of confidence in the plane"). It will take some times for them to regain this consumer's trust and confidence regardless of the outcome of the investigation.

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                        • Originally posted by Bingo_Arms View Post
                          Not surprising but wow has Boeing’s stock ever tumbled. It was around $440 on March 1 and is down to under $370 now.
                          And still 20% higher than 3 months ago.

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                          • I find the idea that a safety feature was an optional add on costing money to be extremely distasteful

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                            • Originally posted by CalgaryRiderFan View Post
                              I find the idea that a safety feature was an optional add on costing money to be extremely distasteful
                              Look at the car industry. Seat belts use to be an option. How long was ABS not standard?

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                              • Originally posted by go riders View Post

                                Look at the car industry. Seat belts use to be an option. How long was ABS not standard?
                                Big difference between cars and planes

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