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2nd Boeing 737-8 crash

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  • 2nd Boeing 737-8 crash

    Cant be good for Boeing a second plane that was new has crashed, first one was in October

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/18-cana...ials-1.4329917

  • #2
    Westjet's got those planes don't they?

    Speaking of which, I saw a Westjet 767 in Calgary the other day, first time I've seen one of their new big ones.

    Comment


    • #3
      They may need to ground those planes with 2 crashes in 5 months.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Magnum View Post
        Cant be good for Boeing a second plane that was new has crashed, first one was in October

        https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/18-cana...ials-1.4329917
        My immediate reaction was to wonder about weather or other potential causes, but as each hour passes the rumors of a similar event as Lion Air keep rising. Rumors, yes, but still.

        Even if inherent defect is proven, and even if negligence is proven, it probably won't end up affecting Boeing long term. I just say this analytically, not morally.

        There's a 10-15 year wait list for this model, so buyers won't cancel. They'll assume, probably correctly, that some kind of solution will be devised by the time their planes get delivered. It will affect the short term certainly. If that means some grounding and software update or mandatory training or whatever, the pockets of the parties involved are plenty deep.

        Even someone scheduled to take delivery tomorrow, they be tempted to accept it and store it, on the assumption that the solution will be devised in a shorter time frame compared to bumping their order.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by squish View Post
          Westjet's got those planes don't they?

          Speaking of which, I saw a Westjet 767 in Calgary the other day, first time I've seen one of their new big ones.
          767's have been around for a long time. The new ones are 787's aka "Dreamliners".

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Touchdown View Post

            My immediate reaction was to wonder about weather or other potential causes, but as each hour passes the rumors of a similar event as Lion Air keep rising. Rumors, yes, but still.

            Even if inherent defect is proven, and even if negligence is proven, it probably won't end up affecting Boeing long term. I just say this analytically, not morally.

            There's a 10-15 year wait list for this model, so buyers won't cancel. They'll assume, probably correctly, that some kind of solution will be devised by the time their planes get delivered. It will affect the short term certainly. If that means some grounding and software update or mandatory training or whatever, the pockets of the parties involved are plenty deep.

            Even someone scheduled to take delivery tomorrow, they be tempted to accept it and store it, on the assumption that the solution will be devised in a shorter time frame compared to bumping their order.
            Lion Air crashed due to shoddy mechanical work and incompetent pilots. In my opinion.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by C.M.Burns View Post

              767's have been around for a long time. The new ones are 787's aka "Dreamliners".
              Did Westjet not buy their 767's new? Those are for their flights to Gatwick, are they not?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                Lion Air crashed due to shoddy mechanical work and incompetent pilots. In my opinion.
                This article has a differing opinion. Anyway you slice it, one is an accident and a second 6 months later with the same plane will make everyone take notice.

                https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/w...sh-pilots.html

                But the tragedy has become a focus of intense interest and debate in aviation circles because of another factor: the determination by Boeing and the F.A.A. that pilots did not need to be informed about a change introduced to the 737’s flight control system for the Max, some software coding intended to automatically offset the risk that the size and location of the new engines could lead the aircraft to stall under certain conditions.

                That judgment by Boeing and its regulator was at least in part a result of the company’s drive to minimize the costs of pilot retraining. And it appears to have left the Lion Air crew without a full understanding of how to address a malfunction that seems to have contributed to the crash: faulty data erroneously indicating that the plane was flying at a dangerous angle, leading the flight control system to repeatedly push the plane’s nose down.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by C.M.Burns View Post

                  767's have been around for a long time. The new ones are 787's aka "Dreamliners".
                  Perhaps that's what I saw. Thing looked huge.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Magnum View Post

                    This article has a differing opinion. Anyway you slice it, one is an accident and a second 6 months later with the same plane will make everyone take notice.

                    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/w...sh-pilots.html
                    That article is wrong.

                    The plane had an equipment problem on the previous flight, which caused an issue with MCAS. The pilots on the previous flight followed procedures and landed the plane.
                    The mechanics did not fix the faulty part, the problem happened again on the next flight. Those pilots did not follow procedures and crashed the plane.

                    Interestingly it seems like there was a warning put out by the US Embassy not to fly out of this airport on this day.
                    Last edited by RiderHard; 03-10-2019, 11:44 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tyree View Post

                      Did Westjet not buy their 767's new? Those are for their flights to Gatwick, are they not?
                      No. They got it off lease from someone else - halfway through their life cycle. They have so many issues with them.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RiderHard View Post

                        That article is wrong.

                        The plane had an equipment problem on the previous flight, which caused an issue with MCAS. The pilots on the previous flight followed procedures and landed the plane.
                        The mechanics did not fix the faulty part, the problem happened again on the next flight. Those pilots did not follow procedures and crashed the plane.

                        Interestingly it seems like there was a warning put out by the US Embassy not to fly out of this airport on this day.
                        Lion Air took possession of the plane in August and the crash happened in October and Ethiopian took possession of their plane in November and it crashed in March. Lion air was in the air 12 minutes after take off and Ethiopian Air was in the air 6 minutes says there is more to this to me.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Magnum View Post

                          Lion Air took possession of the plane in August and the crash happened in October and Ethiopian took possession of their plane in November and it crashed in March. Lion air was in the air 12 minutes after take off and Ethiopian Air was in the air 6 minutes says there is more to this to me.


                          I suspect it is both some mechanical and some pilot error due to lack of retraining.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tyree View Post

                            Did Westjet not buy their 767's new? Those are for their flights to Gatwick, are they not?
                            They were using the 767's to Gatwick but are now incorporating the Dreamliner. When we go in September, both going and return are on the Dreamliner, direct from Calgary

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tyree View Post

                              Did Westjet not buy their 767's new? Those are for their flights to Gatwick, are they not?
                              WestJet’s 767’s were bought from Qantas, who had been flying them since 1991. They are old planes, which is why they’ve given WestJet so many problems.

                              WestJet is replacing them with a fleet of brand new 787’s.

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