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View Full Version : Alonzo Lawrence...DB, CB, Mississippi Gulf Coast Jr. College



Commodore
12-03-2011, 03:57 PM
According to this article, Lawrence is on the Riders protected list and is contemplating coming here next football season. He played one year at Alabama, sat out one year, one year at Southern Mississippi and now is playing at a Mississippi Jr College. He apparently keeps moving around because of eligibility problems. Was ranked very high in high school and recruited by many teams. For full article read Creg Stephenson, Sports from the Mississippi Press. Interesting article.

Rollyd991
12-03-2011, 04:21 PM
According to this article, Lawrence is on the Riders protected list and is contemplating coming here next football season. He played one year at Alabama, sat out one year, one year at Southern Mississippi and now is playing at a Mississippi Jr College. He apparently keeps moving around because of eligibility problems. Was ranked very high in high school and recruited by many teams. For full article read Creg Stephenson, Sports from the Mississippi Press. Interesting article.
Commodore do u have the Link for Mississippi Press

Artie-Lange
12-03-2011, 04:51 PM
Commodore do u have the Link for Mississippi Press

Google broken at your house?

Watermelon Man
12-03-2011, 05:00 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/quoHmjgVXbg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Commodore
12-03-2011, 05:05 PM
Commodore do u have the Link for Mississippi Press

http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-sports/2010/06 update-former-george-county-standout-alonso-lawrence-leaves-southern-miss-possible-for-mgccc.html

Jesse834
12-03-2011, 05:07 PM
BILOXI, Mississippi -- The Mississippi Bowl almost certainly won't be Alonzo Lawrence's last football game, but it might be his final one anywhere near home.

The sophomore cornerback from Lucedale leads ninth-ranked Mississippi Gulf Coast Community (9-2) into action against No. 5 Blinn (Texas) College (9-1) at 2 p.m. Sunday at Biloxi Indian Stadium. Lawrence is keeping his options open after that, and is considering jumping straight to the Canadian Football League.

"I put my name out there for the draft and the Saskatchewan Roughriders have my rights," Lawrence said Friday. "But if I don't like what round I'm drafted in or what kind of contract they're offering me, I'll probably go to a Division II school."

Four years ago, Lawrence seemed destined to be a major college star and future NFL player after capping a standout career at George County High School with an MVP performance in the Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Classic. He more than held his own against future Alabama All-America wide receiver Julio Jones that December night in Mobile, and like Jones signed with the Crimson Tide in February 2008 as part of one of the more celebrated recruiting classes in SEC history.

The 6-foot-2, 215-pound Lawrence redshirted his freshman year at Alabama and left Tuscaloosa under a cloud of disciplinary problems the following summer. He landed at Southern Miss but never dressed out for the Golden Eagles due to NCAA transfer rules before packing his bags once again during the summer of 2010.

He then headed to Perkinston, where he's been a two-time all-region performer for the Bulldogs. Gulf Coast coach Steve Campbell admitted there have been some rough patches with Lawrence the last 18 months, but that "the last 10 weeks have been wonderful."

"We came to an agreement early in the season and he's been wonderful ever since that time," Campbell said. "I will say this -- I've never met a young man who loves to play football, practice football, study football, loves everything about the game as much as Alonzo Lawrence. It's in that guy's blood. I'm an Alonzo fan now. I'm proud of how far he has come, leadership-wise. He's been a good leader for our football team this year."

Although Lawrence certainly has the talent to move on to a Division I school, the status of his "football clock" makes that highly unlikely. Under NCAA rules, players have five seasons to play four from the time they first enroll at a Division I school, but because Lawrence spent one year each at Alabama and Southern Miss, then two at Gulf Coast, he'd have only one season of eligibility at a major college.

Thus, his best options to continue playing are at a Division II school such as West Alabama or North Alabama (where he'd have two full years to play) or in the CFL. Lawrence said he's in the process of scheduling a pro day workout (the CFL draft takes place in May), and will soon start training with former Moss Point and Southern Miss standout C.J. Bailey at the newly opened C.J. Bailey Skill Academy in Gautier.

"I think he'll have that opportunity in the CFL," Campbell said. "(Saskatchewan) has had a (scout) that's been at every game. But the more you look at the Division II rules, he may have a chance to go play some college football as well."

This season, Lawrence has 44 tackles, 5 interceptions (including one touchdown), 4 pass breakups, 3 forced fumbles and 2 fumble recoveries. But Campbell said Lawrence has also been a standout on special teams, where he's often clearing the way for MGCCC return specialist (and fellow starting cornerback) Otis Jacobs.

"Otis had some long punt returns, but that's because Alonzo is completely taking out one of (the opponent's) gunners," Campbell said. "Where most guys take a break, Alonzo will take a wide guy and throw him out of bounds. He really takes pride in it. Otis has had some long kickoff returns, but you watch Alonzo sprint to get in front of him, and then just 'bam!' -- take out the first guy down there. He's just unselfish on the football field. He wants to make a play on every single snap."

Lawrence said it's all about desire.

"I just hate to get beat," Lawrence said. "I want to compete hard on every play, and just make things happen for my team."

Sunday's game can be heard live on WOSM-FM 103.1, with streaming video available at msbowl.com.


http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-sports/2011/12/mgccc_cornerback_alonzo_lawren.html

dollar
12-03-2011, 05:14 PM
http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-sports/2011/12/mgccc_cornerback_alonzo_lawren.html

Sask has had a scout at the games, but, but, but.............

green_goddess
12-03-2011, 05:18 PM
Sask has had a scout at the games, but, but, but.............

Title should read:
"Sask has a scout in US!!!"

- every game hey?

Jesse834
12-03-2011, 05:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZClY0uwgEM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNJATWwZT0Q

Trav
12-03-2011, 06:37 PM
Well he sounds like a good young player, hope to see him at training camp and on the team next season. Now that Miller is gone (never to return) maybe we'll see some young guys on the field a lot more.

Rollyd991
12-03-2011, 06:56 PM
Google broken at your house?
Who do mu think found the link, it sure wasnt you

Giventofly
12-03-2011, 07:31 PM
Seems like he's been black balled because he was an arseclown for a few years. If he's learned his lesson and is actually ready to apply himself fully to football....he could be interesting to watch come TC if he gets an invite.


http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/lawrence_alonzo00.html

HIGH SCHOOL AND PERSONAL DATA: A Parade All-American ... an EA Sports First-Team All-American ... The Mobile Press-Register's Super 120 Team (No. 8) ... four-star cornerback by Scout.com ... rated as the No. 11 cornerback prospect by Scout.com ... the No. 35 prep prospect on Rivals.com Top 100 ... the No. 2 rated player in state of Mississippi by Rivals.com ... the No. 2 cornerback by Rivals.com ... listed on The Atlanta Journal-Constitution's Super Southern 100 ... No. 36 player on the Scout.com Southeast 150 list ... the No. 26 ranked overall player in the nation according to Tom Lemming of CSTV ... played in the 2007 Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Classic at Ladd Stadium in Mobile ... recorded 143 tackles during junior and senior years at George County High School ... tallied 36 career TDs, including 22 TD catches and 14 kick returns (8 KOR and 6 PR) ... as a prep senior tallied 93 tackles and two interceptions ... also added 30 catches for 772 yards and 11 TDs ... a threat on special teams, scored six TDs on kick returns in 2007, including five kickoffs and one punt ... named 2006 Class 5A first-team All-State by MAC/Magnoliapreps.com as a kick returner ... Class 5A second-team All-State pick as a cornerback in 2006 ... recorded 54 tackles and one interception as a junior in 2006 ... also scored eight TDs on kick returns, including five punts and three kickoffs ... brother, Eric Riley, was a wide receiver at Mississippi State.

thegipper
12-03-2011, 10:39 PM
Still wonder about Todd Ressling. Seemed like Flutie type QB. Came to camp and Miller cut him after a few days. Many in the big 12 rated him pretty high.

nearsight
12-03-2011, 10:41 PM
Still wonder about Todd Ressling. Seemed like Flutie type QB. Came to camp and Miller cut him after a few days. Many in the big 12 rated him pretty high.

Todd Reesing was cut because he was brutal.

Canuckmedic
12-03-2011, 11:00 PM
Still wonder about Todd Ressling. Seemed like Flutie type QB. Came to camp and Miller cut him after a few days. Many in the big 12 rated him pretty high.

Instead of reesing they kept the guy from Ronnie Milsap college of dentistry and esthetics. So ya, he sucked.

h.scorpio
12-03-2011, 11:43 PM
Instead of reesing they kept the guy from Ronnie Milsap college of dentistry and esthetics. So ya, he sucked.

:lol:

kurdes
12-04-2011, 01:01 AM
Still wonder about Todd Ressling. Seemed like Flutie type QB. Came to camp and Miller cut him after a few days. Many in the big 12 rated him pretty high.

The only thing similar to Flutie is his size. Reesing sucked.

wist
12-04-2011, 01:46 AM
Instead of reesing they kept the guy from Ronnie Milsap college of dentistry and esthetics. So ya, he sucked.

I believe they kept someone else. The dude you are thinking of was the year before.

Lotus
12-04-2011, 07:20 AM
We should have this one on the list as well.

Great movement,fast as :censor: and tough as nails...and more importantly can catch a football.

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/martin_keshawn00.html

Rocket 88
12-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Sask has had a scout at the games, but, but, but.............

...And the CFL draft is in May. For imports. Yeah.

dollar
12-04-2011, 03:19 PM
...And the CFL draft is in May. For imports. Yeah.

I believe the coach said that Sask had scouts at the game, which he would probably be aware of, while it was the reporter who mentioned the CFL draft which he would not be expected to know was for non-imports only.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 08:10 AM
Sask has had a scout at the games, but, but, but.............

and if you believe that - I have a head coach candidate to sell you

lets assume for a moment this guy was not a CB but a QB - and lets assume that this QB was Doug Flutie, Warren Moon and Ron Lancaster all rolled into one
only for some reason he was black listed by the NFL

we still are not going to have a scout watching him every game

so either you believe the guy is really exaggerating - or you believe the Rider scouts are so incompetent that they would waste that much time on a neg listed CB

on second thought - maybe this is true - might explain why we could not find any other players!

Migsy
12-05-2011, 08:38 AM
and if you believe that - I have a head coach candidate to sell you

lets assume for a moment this guy was not a CB but a QB - and lets assume that this QB was Doug Flutie, Warren Moon and Ron Lancaster all rolled into one
only for some reason he was black listed by the NFL

we still are not going to have a scout watching him every game

so either you believe the guy is really exaggerating - or yUou believe the Rider scouts are so incompetent that they would waste that much time on a neg listed CB

on second thought - maybe this is true - might explain why we could not find any other players!
Could not find any other players? Who are CGraham, EWheelwright, tBrackenridge, BWest, KRowe, CFrancis, FBarnes, etc. Tell me how you know any of these new recruits are not quality CFL prospects?

Rotor
12-05-2011, 09:32 AM
Could not find any other players? Who are CGraham, EWheelwright, tBrackenridge, BWest, KRowe, CFrancis, FBarnes, etc. Tell me how you know any of these new recruits are not quality CFL prospects?

tell me were Brackenridge Row Francis Barnes in Camp?

Did Graham show you undeniably that he can play in this league? Did Wheelright?

Did any of these players become IMPACT CFL players this year?

Besides I am not the one claiming we had a scout watch every game this CB played in - I am the one saying that would be incompetence by our scouts

Migsy
12-05-2011, 09:44 AM
tell me were Brackenridge Row Francis Barnes in Camp?

Did Graham show you undeniably that he can play in this league? Did Wheelright?

Did any of these players become IMPACT CFL players this year?

Besides I am not the one claiming we had a scout watch every game this CB played in - I am the one saying that would be incompetence by our scouts
Without a doubt Chris Graham has. And no, none of them became immediate impact players in the CFL this year mostly because alot if them didn't get the opportunity or put in a position to suceed. But the ones that did see a small bit of playing time looked darn good (Brackenridge, West, Rowe, CGraham). The other guys you can blame Miller for not giving them the opportunity because he was too damn stubborn.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 09:56 AM
Without a doubt Chris Graham has. And no, none of them became immediate impact players in the CFL this year mostly because alot if them didn't get the opportunity or put in a position to suceed. But the ones that did see a small bit of playing time looked darn good (Brackenridge, West, Rowe, CGraham). The other guys you can blame Miller for not giving them the opportunity because he was too damn stubborn.

I agree the blame lies on coaching for not using what is provided

and How do you feel this comment about us having a scout at every game this kid played?

garbage? or True?

if true what would that say about our scouting?

Migsy
12-05-2011, 11:00 AM
I agree the blame lies on coaching for not using what is provided

and How do you feel this comment about us having a scout at every game this kid played?

garbage? or True?

if true what would that say about our scouting?

Ummm it could likely mean our scouts are very interested in this guy and that the complaints about our lack if scouting down south are highly exaggerated. Dunno, all care about is whether or not he can play.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 11:18 AM
Ummm it could likely mean our scouts are very interested in this guy and that the complaints about our lack if scouting down south are highly exaggerated. Dunno, all care about is whether or not he can play.

Really you think that a scout showing up to EVERY game this kid played is proper use of our Resources? Hundreds of games every weekend yet donating every game to watch one prospect over and over again - that you have already listed - that is good scouting?

LOL hope we sign this kid

thebryceisright
12-05-2011, 11:30 AM
I wish they would release some information about player transactions. I know they are looking for a HC but it would give Rider fans something to chew on while that is going on.

Canuckmedic
12-05-2011, 11:33 AM
Could not find any other players? Who are CGraham, EWheelwright, tBrackenridge, BWest, KRowe, CFrancis, FBarnes, etc. Tell me how you know any of these new recruits are not quality CFL prospects?

Names on paper. Except for brandon west all those guys did just about nothing last year. Meaningless.

SuzieQ
12-05-2011, 11:33 AM
Really you think that a scout showing up to EVERY game this kid played is proper use of our Resources? Hundreds of games every weekend yet donating every game to watch one prospect over and over again - that you have already listed - that is good scouting?

LOL hope we sign this kid

It is entirely possible the coach's quote about a scout at "every" game contains some hyperbole and/or was taken out of context. Maybe he meant every home game.... there are only 4 at home in their season (excluding playoffs).

Also, we do have a number of former players in the South Mississippi, Louisana areas. Possible that we have one of those guys as a part time scout and/or targetted one of them to keep a closer eye on this prospect.

The long and the short of it though is that this article indicates that we have at least some resources working in the US, doing something. Where as many have stated we have no resources, doing nothing.

Rocket 88
12-05-2011, 11:35 AM
Really you think that a scout showing up to EVERY game this kid played is proper use of our Resources? Hundreds of games every weekend yet donating every game to watch one prospect over and over again - that you have already listed - that is good scouting?

LOL hope we sign this kid

I'm howling at how you are disecting Migs with logic, only he's immune to it. one of the side effects from keeping one's head in the sand too long.

thebryceisright
12-05-2011, 11:37 AM
Names on paper. Except for brandon west all those guys did just about nothing last year. Meaningless.

Well considering the head coach(es) we had last year, we have no idea if any of those guys can play. All of them showed potential in the limited play time they had though.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 11:57 AM
It is entirely possible the coach's quote about a scout at "every" game contains some hyperbole and/or was taken out of context. Maybe he meant every home game.... there are only 4 at home in their season (excluding playoffs).

Also, we do have a number of former players in the South Mississippi, Louisana areas. Possible that we have one of those guys as a part time scout and/or targetted one of them to keep a closer eye on this prospect.

The long and the short of it though is that this article indicates that we have at least some resources working in the US, doing something. Where as many have stated we have no resources, doing nothing.

the article is either BS or True

if it is BS it provides no evidence of scouting

it it is true it suggest improper utilization of scouting resources on a single candidate already neg listed

nothing in this article can be used to suggest anything positive about scouting unless you choose to believe one part but not another

SuzieQ
12-05-2011, 12:39 PM
the article is either BS or True

if it is BS it provides no evidence of scouting

it it is true it suggest improper utilization of scouting resources on a single candidate already neg listed

nothing in this article can be used to suggest anything positive about scouting unless you choose to believe one part but not another

How so?

What if, as I suggested, we have a former player contact in the area. We really like this DB, so we ask the guy to go to the local games, give him game tickets and a few bucks to get a report and build rapport with the kid and his coaches.

This would be a bad thing how?

dollar
12-05-2011, 01:02 PM
and if you believe that - I have a head coach candidate to sell you

lets assume for a moment this guy was not a CB but a QB - and lets assume that this QB was Doug Flutie, Warren Moon and Ron Lancaster all rolled into one
only for some reason he was black listed by the NFL

we still are not going to have a scout watching him every game

so either you believe the guy is really exaggerating - or you believe the Rider scouts are so incompetent that they would waste that much time on a neg listed CB

on second thought - maybe this is true - might explain why we could not find any other players!

Don't believe for a second a scout was at every game and he simply misspoke. Unless you believe the coach is not being truthful it is clear Sask had a scout watch this player......I thought the riders didn't have any scouts?

dollar
12-05-2011, 01:07 PM
the article is either BS or True

if it is BS it provides no evidence of scouting

it it is true it suggest improper utilization of scouting resources on a single candidate already neg listed

nothing in this article can be used to suggest anything positive about scouting unless you choose to believe one part but not another

Completely true or completely untrue....Black and white...really,

Migsy
12-05-2011, 01:29 PM
the article is either BS or True

if it is BS it provides no evidence of scouting

it it is true it suggest improper utilization of scouting resources on a single candidate already neg listed

nothing in this article can be used to suggest anything positive about scouting unless you choose to believe one part but not another
So let me get this straight, we've gone from whining about having no scouts down south to whining about scouting a player down south too often. This place is hilarious. Lol

Rocket 88
12-05-2011, 02:14 PM
So let me get this straight, we've gone from whining about having no scouts down south to whining about scouting a player down south too often. This place is hilarious. Lol
If you camp out watching a DB you already have listed at the expense of not finding any DE's or LT's...

Rotor
12-05-2011, 02:48 PM
So let me get this straight, we've gone from whining about having no scouts down south to whining about scouting a player down south too often. This place is hilarious. Lol

a coach makes an outlandish statement that a DB was scouted EACH AND EVERY GAME by the Riders who had a "scout" at every game - and you feel this is vindication?

100's of games every weekend - yet we neg list a guy and then go back week after week after week to watch a guy who we already have the rights to

instead of going to any one of hundreds of other games to find a NEW PLAYER - yeah GREAT SCOUTING - if this is the Rider Scouting network at work they can all be fired

even though they don't have names - even though they are never listed as being associated with the team -

how about you write a note to Hopson - and get him to give us the "NAMES" of these unidentifiable scouts

Feldstein
12-05-2011, 02:53 PM
how about you write a note to Hopson - and get him to give us the "NAMES" of these unidentifiable scouts

It wouldn't be the first time Durantmop wrote notes to Hopson to go along with his tattling notes. Why this guy is allowed back here to stay to stir things up mystifies not only me but probably many other members as well.

Boone
12-05-2011, 03:00 PM
a coach makes an outlandish statement that a DB was scouted EACH AND EVERY GAME by the Riders who had a "scout" at every game - and you feel this is vindication?

100's of games every weekend - yet we neg list a guy and then go back week after week after week to watch a guy who we already have the rights to

instead of going to any one of hundreds of other games to find a NEW PLAYER - yeah GREAT SCOUTING - if this is the Rider Scouting network at work they can all be fired

even though they don't have names - even though they are never listed as being associated with the team -

how about you write a note to Hopson - and get him to give us the "NAMES" of these unidentifiable scouts

Is it not concievable that 'if the scout was at every game" he was scouting some player/players on the opposing teams?

Rotor
12-05-2011, 03:05 PM
Completely true or completely untrue....Black and white...really,

well if we all get to just pick the portion of it that we want to be true and ignore the rest

it really does not add anything does it

I tend to believe the scout comment was merely a coach trying to hype his player - and that no scout existed - it is far more believable that we neglisted this guy and then did not attend another game than it is to believe we neg listed him and then spent all our time and game budget watching him live over and over again -

Rotor
12-05-2011, 03:09 PM
Is it not concievable that 'if the scout was at every game" he was scouting some player/players on the opposing teams?

if that is the case we need hundreds of scouts just so that we make sure we have some guy with season tickets in each conference while we wait for the opposing teams to parade their players in

scouting usually means more the having season tickets - it involves attending practices talking to coaching staff -

again not just sitting in the stands

Migsy
12-05-2011, 03:11 PM
a coach makes an outlandish statement that a DB was scouted EACH AND EVERY GAME by the Riders who had a "scout" at every game - and you feel this is vindication?

100's of games every weekend - yet we neg list a guy and then go back week after week after week to watch a guy who we already have the rights to

instead of going to any one of hundreds of other games to find a NEW PLAYER - yeah GREAT SCOUTING - if this is the Rider Scouting network at work they can all be fired

even though they don't have names - even though they are never listed as being associated with the team -

how about you write a note to Hopson - and get him to give us the "NAMES" of these unidentifiable scouts
It's almost as if you guys strive to find different things to complain about. Nobody knows if the coach was exaggerating by saying he was there every game, all we do know is that he was there. We don't know if he was looking at other prospects as well and we don't know what else he did thoughtful each given week. I think your biggest issue is that you don't know who the scout is, and I'm enjoying watching you guys scramble for the next thing to cry about.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 03:19 PM
It's almost as if you guys strive to find different things to complain about. Nobody knows if the coach was exaggerating by saying he was there every game, all we do know is that he was there. We don't know if he was looking at other prospects as well and we don't know what else he did thoughtful each given week. I think your biggest issue is that you don't know who the scout is, and I'm enjoying watching you guys scramble for the next thing to cry about.

so where does the exaggeration end and begin? if he is exagerating about how often maybe he exaggerated about him being there altogether -

that is my point - you cannot say anything in the statement is truthful because the entire statement is absolutely outlandish when you consider the implications of every other game going on that this Scout chose not to attend in order to watch the same guy - over and over again

it also means that you have to ignore what we know intuitively about scouting - there are so many players to see that once you neg list a guy

you simply do not go back to watch him live over and over again - you rely on film and you may go and watch a practice or talk to the coach or the kids agent

but to have as you are now saying a scout dedicated to staying in one location and watching the entire season - even if you are "scouting" the other teams in the conference?

do you know how many conferences their are in DIV I, II and III ball?

the statement is laughable -

Giventofly
12-05-2011, 03:24 PM
We scouted him, neg listed him and probably had a contact watch him over a few games like most every other player. The kid was giving an interview and was hyping himself up. I don't know why this has created such a debate. It happens everyday. Oh well....it is the offseason.

Anyways, I hope he gets to come up to camp.....seems like he has some talent.

http://cmsimg.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=D0&Date=99999999&Category=SPORTS060301&ArtNo=399990096&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Alonzo-Lawrence-RB-George-County

Rotor
12-05-2011, 03:27 PM
We scouted him, neg listed him and probably had a contact watch him over a few games like most every other player. The kid was giving an interview and was hyping himself up. I don't know why this has created such a debate. It happens everyday. Oh well....it is the offseason.

Anyways, I hope he gets to come up to camp.....seems like he has some talent.

http://cmsimg.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=D0&Date=99999999&Category=SPORTS060301&ArtNo=399990096&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Alonzo-Lawrence-RB-George-County

I hope he lands here as well -

dollar
12-05-2011, 03:44 PM
well if we all get to just pick the portion of it that we want to be true and ignore the rest

it really does not add anything does it

I tend to believe the scout comment was merely a coach trying to hype his player - and that no scout existed - it is far more believable that we neglisted this guy and then did not attend another game than it is to believe we neg listed him and then spent all our time and game budget watching him live over and over again -

It is rather funny that you have absolutely no idea if Sask. had a scout watch him, one game or two games, or four games......but it doesn't stop you from railing on and on about the situation............The coach said Sask. scouted him and he has been neg listed.......what exactly is the issue other than it brings into question the assertion that the riders don't have any "network" or "scouts." You may have to change your narrative.....it is okay if you are wrong....lol

Migsy
12-05-2011, 03:55 PM
It wouldn't be the first time Durantmop wrote notes to Hopson to go along with his tattling notes. Why this guy is allowed back here to stay to stir things up mystifies not only me but probably many other members as well.
You know things are out of whack when the positive person is said to be "stirring things up". Lol

Migsy
12-05-2011, 03:57 PM
so where does the exaggeration end and begin? if he is exasperating about how often maybe he exaggerated about him being there altogether -

that is my point - you cannot say anything in the statement is truthful because the entire statement is absolutely outlandish when you consider the implications of every other game going on that this Scout chose not to attend in order to watch the same guy - over and over again

it also means that you have to ignore what we know intuitively about scouting - there are so many players to see that once you neg list a guy

you simply do not go back to watch him live over and over again - you rely on film and you may go and watch a practice or talk to the coach or the kids agent

but to have as you are now saying a scout dedicated to staying in one location and watching the entire season - even if you are "scouting" the other teams in the conference?

do you know how many conferences their are in DIV I, II and III ball?

the statement is laughable -
Your statement is laughable because you don't know if the coach was exaggerating or the context that was used. To each their own, keep complaining.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 03:57 PM
It is rather funny that you have absolutely no idea if Sask. had a scout watch him, one game or two games, or four games......but it doesn't stop you from railing on and on about the situation............The coach said Sask. scouted him and he has been neg listed.......what exactly is the issue other than it brings into question the assertion that the riders don't have any "network" or "scouts." You may have to change your narrative.....it is okay if you are wrong....lol

the coach said the riders had a scout in attendance watching him every game

""I think he'll have that opportunity in the CFL," Campbell said. "(Saskatchewan) has had a (scout) that's been at every game."

Rotor
12-05-2011, 03:59 PM
Your statement is laughable because you don't know if the coach was exaggerating or the context that was used. To each their own, keep complaining.

and you keep Hopologizing -

Migsy
12-05-2011, 04:01 PM
We scouted him, neg listed him and probably had a contact watch him over a few games like most every other player. The kid was giving an interview and was hyping himself up. I don't know why this has created such a debate. It happens everyday. Oh well....it is the offseason.

Anyways, I hope he gets to come up to camp.....seems like he has some talent.

http://cmsimg.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=D0&Date=99999999&Category=SPORTS060301&ArtNo=399990096&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Alonzo-Lawrence-RB-George-CountyWhats this world coming to, hey? ;)

Migsy
12-05-2011, 04:02 PM
and you keep Hopologizing -

Nah I'll keep cheering for my team, thanks.

dollar
12-05-2011, 04:54 PM
the coach said the riders had a scout in attendance watching him every game

""I think he'll have that opportunity in the CFL," Campbell said. "(Saskatchewan) has had a (scout) that's been at every game."

As you mentioned, a scout being at every game is probably not accurate and he perhaps misspoke. To somehow draw the conclusion that the scout doesn't exist or was never at a game from this is laughable........He has been neg. listed someone, somewhere scouted this player for the riders debunking the urban myth that the riders have no one in the states finding players. This is especially true in this case because this player is so far under the radar.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 04:57 PM
As you mentioned, a scout being at every game is probably not accurate and he perhaps misspoke. To somehow draw the conclusion that the scout doesn't exist or was never at a game from this is laughable........He has been neg. listed someone, somewhere scouted this player for the riders debunking the urban myth that the riders have no one in the states finding players. This is especially true in this case because this player is so far under the radar.

thank you

So now that we believe he mispoke or exaggerated - where does this article prove that this Scout who attended a game and neg listed this prospect was neither Craig Smith nor Brendan Taman or even Ken Miller? or each one in succession?

Giventofly
12-05-2011, 04:59 PM
thank you

So now that we believe he mispoke or exaggerated - where does this article prove that this Scout who attended a game and neg listed this prospect was neither Craig Smith nor Brendan Taman or even Ken Miller? or each one in succession?

Holy fack...who cares. He's on the Riders list, that's good enough.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Holy fack...who cares. He's on the Riders list, that's good enough.

that was not the issue that Durantmop was waving in our face

great he looks like a good prospect

Durantmop was using this as undeniable proof that our scouting department is "far more extensive" than we have given credit for

I say all this does is show we neglisted a prospect - NO WAY did we have a scout there every game - if we did that would be an absolute waste of scouting resources

so we have as DOllar says proof A scout attended at least 1 game neg listed this person

to which I ask WHERE do we get that this scout was not Smith Taman Miller or each one in a series checking out the same guy? heck lets send Oday down that makes 4 games scouted

where does it say the SCOUT was other than those people?

dollar
12-05-2011, 05:07 PM
thank you

So now that we believe he mispoke or exaggerated - where does this article prove that this Scout who attended a game and neg listed this prospect was neither Craig Smith nor Brendan Taman or even Ken Miller? or each one in succession?

Given your scenario, did they just stop off to watch the Mississippi State Jr college game because they were bored, or did a "contact"/"scout" indicate to them that this was a player worth having a look at?

Rotor
12-05-2011, 05:11 PM
Given your scenario, did they just stop off to watch the Mississippi State Jr college game because they were bored, or did a "contact"/"scout" indicate to them that this was a player worth having a look at?

don't know - does not matter - maybe they found this kid on there usual scouting swing - maybe not

the only thing I was getting at from the beginning is How does this article prove anything about our scouting other than somehow we listed this kid

the article does not say who the scout is or that it was the same guy each time - it says "scout" that could have been Smith, Miller, Taman, Oday,

the article does nothing to suggest this scout is someone other than this group and we can probably conclude easily that the claim of having a scout watching every game was embellishment

McGreen
12-05-2011, 05:13 PM
Holy fack...who cares. He's on the Riders list, that's good enough.

Some people just can't stop looking for the "red under the bed".

dollar
12-05-2011, 05:17 PM
don't know - does not matter - maybe they found this kid on there usual scouting swing - maybe not

the only thing I was getting at from the beginning is How does this article prove anything about our scouting other than somehow we listed this kid

the article does not say who the scout is or that it was the same guy each time - it says "scout" that could have been Smith, Miller, Taman, Oday,

the article does nothing to suggest this scout is someone other than this group and we can probably conclude easily that the claim of having a scout watching every game was embellishment

And all I am saying is that the riders scouting in of all places Mississippi Gulf Coast JR. College, suggest the "network" and their reach might be a little more extensive than the naysayers are giving them credit for.....but lo and behold some aren't even able to bring themselves to admitting that.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 05:18 PM
Some people just can't stop looking for the "red under the bed".

so Mr McGreen - please indicate how this article proves that this un named scout was none Taman Miller Smith or O'day!

I never said this kid was not a good prospect - I never said this kid was not scouted by this regime

I responded to posts suggesting this article constituted proof of a larger scouting organization

Rotor
12-05-2011, 05:20 PM
And all I am saying is that the riders scouting in of all places Mississippi Gulf Coast JR. College, suggest the "network" and their reach might be a little more extensive than the naysayers are giving them credit for.....but lo and behold some aren't even able to bring themselves to admitting that.

suggests? it suggests we neg listed a kid. you show me where it implies it was other than Craig Smith our main scout.

dollar
12-05-2011, 05:24 PM
suggests? it suggests we neg listed a kid? you show me where it implies it was other than Craig Smith our main scout.

It might very well have been Craig Smith, who obviously got a heads-up about this kid( the network). If it was Craig, than the head scout of the riders and his contacts are doing a good job in trying to find the diamonds in the rough.

Rotor
12-05-2011, 05:27 PM
It might very well have been Craig Smith, who obviously got a heads-up about this kid( the network). If it was Craig, than the head scout of the riders and his contacts are doing a good job in trying to find the diamonds in the rough.

sure - like I have said since Taman took over the neg list - I think it will be well managed and much improved

but this article is not exactly the PROOF of "scouts" that nobody knows of

which you and Durantmop were selling

SuzieQ
12-05-2011, 06:08 PM
sure - like I have said since Taman took over the neg list - I think it will be well managed and much improved

but this article is not exactly the PROOF of "scouts" that nobody knows of

which you and Durantmop were selling

It could have been Smith, Taman, Miller or O'day. However, lets look at things in context.

1. The coach was likely trying to hype his player. If that was the case wouldn't he have said the Rougriders had their GM or VP here to scout him to provide even more profile? That kind of rules out Taman/Miller.

2. It was mentioned when he was promoted that O'day has been given an expanded role and that he had excelled at coordinating, contracts etc. etc. to this point. No indication was given that he has been out "scouting". Possible I suppose but not highly likely.

3. It could easily have been Smith, but if it was, I doubt he would be there for multiple games. I also doubt that even if the coach was hyping his player he would make the leap from a scout stopping by for one game to saying a scout was at every game. Seems like quite a stretch.

To me, that adds up to probably someone scouting him for multiple games. My personal belief is that it is likely a former player and/or part time scout that we've leveraged to watch this prospect more closely and build a rapport with him and his coach. If this is the arrangement, I don't expect we're breaking the bank for this resource, nor would we be pulling them away from other scouting duties.

danno
12-05-2011, 06:09 PM
It could have been Smith, Taman, Miller or O'day. However, lets look at things in context.

1. The coach was likely trying to hype his player. If that was the case wouldn't he have said the Rougriders had their GM or VP here to scout him to provide even more profile? That kind of rules out Taman/Miller.

2. It was mentioned when he was promoted that O'day has been given an expanded role and that he had excelled at coordinating, contracts etc. etc. to this point. No indication was given that he has been out "scouting". Possible I suppose but not highly likely.

3. It could easily have been Smith, but if it was, I doubt he would be there for multiple games. I also doubt that even if the coach was hyping his player he would make the leap from a scout stopping by for one game to saying a scout was at every game. Seems like quite a stretch.

To me, that adds up to probably someone scouting him for multiple games. My personal belief is that it is likely a former player and/or part time scout that we've leveraged to watch this prospect more closely and build a rapport with him and his coach. If this is the arrangement, I don't expect we're breaking the bank for this resource, nor would we be pulling them away from other scouting duties.

I agree ...

Rotor
12-06-2011, 09:39 AM
It could have been Smith, Taman, Miller or O'day. However, lets look at things in context.

1. The coach was likely trying to hype his player. If that was the case wouldn't he have said the Rougriders had their GM or VP here to scout him to provide even more profile? That kind of rules out Taman/Miller.

2. It was mentioned when he was promoted that O'day has been given an expanded role and that he had excelled at coordinating, contracts etc. etc. to this point. No indication was given that he has been out "scouting". Possible I suppose but not highly likely.

3. It could easily have been Smith, but if it was, I doubt he would be there for multiple games. I also doubt that even if the coach was hyping his player he would make the leap from a scout stopping by for one game to saying a scout was at every game. Seems like quite a stretch.

To me, that adds up to probably someone scouting him for multiple games. My personal belief is that it is likely a former player and/or part time scout that we've leveraged to watch this prospect more closely and build a rapport with him and his coach. If this is the arrangement, I don't expect we're breaking the bank for this resource, nor would we be pulling them away from other scouting duties.

I agree
a guy we know who has our phone # and watches the odd game on a casual basis and likely does not get paid beyond maybe reimbursing his ticket - NOT A SCOUT a full time/part time employee dedicated to scouring a particular region for players

we need SCOUTS -

SuzieQ
12-06-2011, 01:15 PM
I agree
a guy we know who has our phone # and watches the odd game on a casual basis and likely does not get paid beyond maybe reimbursing his ticket - NOT A SCOUT a full time/part time employee dedicated to scouring a particular region for players

we need SCOUTS -

I'd argue we need both.

Former players with an eye for talent who can act as part time scouts (paid or un-paid) could be VERY valuable. Clearly, they need to be able to evaluate talent and provide good updates/reports. In MANY cases they might be located much closer to prospects we want to evaluate/monitor. That proximity can let them check in on players multiple times if desired.

The fact that they are former players for us also positions them to "sell" the idea of the CFL and Saskatchewan to the player as well. In addition to evaluating talent, getting them neg listed, you also have to get them to come or all your other efforts are fruitless.

Rotor
12-06-2011, 02:24 PM
I'd argue we need both.

Former players with an eye for talent who can act as part time scouts (paid or un-paid) could be VERY valuable. Clearly, they need to be able to evaluate talent and provide good updates/reports. In MANY cases they might be located much closer to prospects we want to evaluate/monitor. That proximity can let them check in on players multiple times if desired.

The fact that they are former players for us also positions them to "sell" the idea of the CFL and Saskatchewan to the player as well. In addition to evaluating talent, getting them neg listed, you also have to get them to come or all your other efforts are fruitless.

you are correct but we like every other team I am sure have people like that usually they are friends of the GM and the scout - which is why being WELL CONNECTED is critical to the recruiting process - because it is ALWAYS these CONTACTS taken as a whole the payout the most

which is why we need more scouts because Smith and Taman do not have the same kind of CONTACTS that guys like Popp, SHivers, John Murphy or even Chris Jones do

I have said all along we need a truly connected player personnel guy or scout - we just don't

dollar
12-06-2011, 02:45 PM
you are correct but we like every other team I am sure have people like that usually they are friends of the GM and the scout - which is why being WELL CONNECTED is critical to the recruiting process - because it is ALWAYS these CONTACTS taken as a whole the payout the most

which is why we need more scouts because Smith and Taman do not have the same kind of CONTACTS that guys like Popp, SHivers, John Murphy or even Chris Jones do

I have said all along we need a truly connected player personnel guy or scout - we just don't

I would suggest with Taman's many years in player personnel, as assistant gm and gm that he has developed many "contacts" down south, just because he is a local boy doesn't mean he hasn't done his work over the course of his 20+ CFL career to develop a network of people he can call and rely on.

Rotor
12-06-2011, 02:51 PM
I would suggest with Taman's many years in player personnel, as assistant gm and gm that he has developed many "contacts" down south, just because he is a local boy doesn't mean he hasn't done his work over the course of his 20+ CFL career to develop a network of people he can call and rely on.

I am suggesting that if you put Shivers, Hufnagel, ET, Taman, Mack, Popp, Barker, Obilivich in a room

and said everyone call all your contacts - that Taman would be done first and long before a guy like Shivers or Mack

Canuckmedic
12-06-2011, 02:52 PM
And all I am saying is that the riders scouting in of all places Mississippi Gulf Coast JR. College, suggest the "network" and their reach might be a little more extensive than the naysayers are giving them credit for.....but lo and behold some aren't even able to bring themselves to admitting that.

He's a name on paper and a fuggin youtube video. I'm not ready to celebrate our "scouting department"(LOL) yet.

dollar
12-06-2011, 02:55 PM
I am suggesting that if you put Shivers, Hufnagel, ET, Taman, Mack, Popp, Barker, Obilivich in a room

and said everyone call all your contacts - that Taman would be done first and long before a guy like Shivers or Mack

It is a matter of degrees and speculation.....far different than he has no contacts or no presence south of the border.....

Migsy
12-06-2011, 03:02 PM
I am suggesting that if you put Shivers, Hufnagel, ET, Taman, Mack, Popp, Barker, Obilivich in a room

and said everyone call all your contacts - that Taman would be done first and long before a guy like Shivers or Mack
You know this how?

dollar
12-06-2011, 03:15 PM
You know this how?

He doesn't, speculating like the rest of us.

RR20
01-29-2012, 05:43 PM
http://www.sunherald.com/2012/01/20/3700236/gulf-coasts-lawrence-expected.html

Midori no Hi
01-29-2012, 07:52 PM
Google broken at your house?

One person does the work so then no one else has to. Kind of like my job. :-)

Riderfan
01-29-2012, 11:55 PM
I'd argue we need both.

Former players with an eye for talent who can act as part time scouts (paid or un-paid) could be VERY valuable. Clearly, they need to be able to evaluate talent and provide good updates/reports. In MANY cases they might be located much closer to prospects we want to evaluate/monitor. That proximity can let them check in on players multiple times if desired.

The fact that they are former players for us also positions them to "sell" the idea of the CFL and Saskatchewan to the player as well. In addition to evaluating talent, getting them neg listed, you also have to get them to come or all your other efforts are fruitless.

If we are counting on ex-players or ex-coaches to assist the scouting process the club could perhaps make greater efforts to part on good terms, if possible. It is not always easy to do this; however, maximum efforts towards this could pay dividends.

I think we have seen a few examples lately of not making personal phone calls or talking directly to players or having the trainer make the call. That, if true, is both sad and poor business.

It takes both integrity and sometimes considerable courage to talk directly with people.

stanthefan
01-30-2012, 07:02 AM
Very true, Riderfan. Unfortunately, the Riders past history is not very good in this regard (ie. Richie Hall, Dave Ridgway, Bobby Jurasin, - just to name a few who were "dismissed unceremoniously").

The Edmonton Eskimoes were famous during their dominant years in the 80s and 90s when players, coaches, etc left the team but still managed to send players up from the US.

Giventofly
01-30-2012, 08:01 AM
http://www.sunherald.com/2012/01/20/3700236/gulf-coasts-lawrence-expected.html

I'm very intrigued to see Alonzo Lawrence up here. Hope it's true.

Rotor
01-30-2012, 08:14 AM
I'm very intrigued to see Alonzo Lawrence up here. Hope it's true.

yep - his size alone makes him an interesting recruit - and another example of solid use of the neg list

Mikejth
01-30-2012, 11:06 AM
It is an interesting debate, does the coaches comment mean we have people out there scouting. Why would he be at every game after he has been but on the neg list.

First lets deal with the why would the scout be at every game. He maybe scouting other players from other teams or who knows he may live in the area goes to every home game, does that mean he is there only in scouting capacity. Not really, but he is likely keeping an eye on the player. It seems to me that Indy has a certain scout in that lives in Regina, but wait a minute for years he has been going to every riders home game why would he be doing that, he should be going across the country and never really staying in Regina.

Who knows, may the guy doing the scouting is part of a scouting service and he attending games looking for players for other teams as well.

To try blow this comment up to prove or disprove the existence of scouting is not a foolish thing to do. But it is also an impossible thing to do. Unless someone actually takes the article to Taman and asks him who the scout was and why did he go to every home game the argument is foolish.

It is like the Russell Wilson and Kellen Moore argument about them both being on the neg list. There is the possibility that they may never come to the CFL, which only proves that management was right for dropping them. There is the possibility that they may come to the CFL, and be a bust for the team that brings them in. But what will that prove, it will prove nothing, because those who are pissed off that they got dropped from the riders, will argue that they did come to Sask and may have been able to push Durant out the door. But the argument isn't valid because, if they get cut the riders would still have had the opportunity to pick them up and didn't. So that leaves the only way the argument can be proven, is either Moore or Wilson or both must come to the CFL, not only win starting jobs, but must also end up being better quarterbacks both statistically, and the number times to the cup and the number of cup wins then Durant. I am not saying that Durant is close to Calvillo, but keep in mind, at one point in his career Calvillo was 1 and 4 in Grey Cup appearances.

Rider_Stronson
01-30-2012, 11:24 AM
yep - his size alone makes him an interesting recruit - and another example of solid use of the neg list

6'2", 215 lbs, runs a 4.48 forty. So he's slightly smaller than Brandon Browner but also faster.

GnR
01-30-2012, 11:27 AM
From the news reports it sounds like Mr. Lawrence got a raw deal in recruiting and doesn't belong in a junior college, and maybe not anywhere near the CFL, if he was able to follow the normal college path for highly ranked high school players. But circumstances being what they are he might show up in our training camp and use a couple seasons to gain professional experience, and prove himself, and get to the NFL. I hope we see him at training camp.

CalgaryRiderFan
01-30-2012, 11:31 AM
If the guy works out, the assistant to the assistant equpiment manager can have found him for all I care

Rider_Stronson
01-30-2012, 11:32 AM
http://blogs.ourlads.com/2012/01/22/additions-to-2012-nfl-draft-underclassmen-list/


The League office received written notification from the following players prior to the January 15 deadline that they have renounced their college football eligibility.

Player Position College

Saalim Hakim, WR Palomar JC

Kyle Hall, P No College

Alonzo Lawrence, DB Mississippi Gulf JC

As a result of such timely notification, the players are eligible for selection in the 2012 Draft that begins April 26.

Current NCAA rules provide that a player who is ineligible to participate as a college freshman due to a rule known as Proposition 16 is eligible to play only three seasons of college football. If, however, such player graduates prior to the beginning of his fifth academic year, he automatically becomes eligible to participate in a fourth season of college football as a graduate student.

■Clubs are advised that any player who entered college in 2008 with only three seasons of football eligibility subject to Proposition 16 and who has participated in three college seasons is eligible for selection in the 2012 Draft, provided that the player does not participate in spring football practice or other team-related activities at his school in 2012. If such player is graduated, becomes eligible to participate in another college football season, and returns to college to play football in 2012, pursuant to the terms of Article 6, Section 6 of the 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement, a selecting club will retain its exclusive rights to him “through the date of the Draft that follows the last season in which the player was eligible to participate in college football, and thereafter the player shall be treated and the Club shall have such exclusive rights as if he were drafted in such Draft by such Club (or assignee Club).”
■If such a player is not drafted, he becomes eligible to be signed as a free agent and remains eligible to be signed as a free agent unless he returns to college to play football in the fall of 2012, in which case he will become eligible for selection in the 2013 Draft.
■A Prop 16 player who participates in spring football practice or other team-related activities at his school is not eligible for selection in the 2012 Draft. If he subsequently becomes eligible for selection prior to the 2012 regular season, he may apply for a supplemental draft.

Rider_Stronson
01-30-2012, 11:36 AM
Hmmmmmmmm, also seeing him listed at 6' 1" and 190 lbs on some sites. But his 40 time is solid. This is a big corner who can fly. Low of 4.43. That's a hair faster than Weston Dressler.

Bingo_Arms
01-30-2012, 11:39 AM
Hmmmmmmmm, also seeing him listed at 6' 1" and 190 lbs on some sites. But his 40 time is solid. This is a big corner who can fly. Low of 4.43. That's a hair faster than Weston Dressler.

If he has the skill set and ball instincts to go with that frame and speed, he could very well be a game changing DB.

Rider_Stronson
01-30-2012, 11:46 AM
If he has the skill set and ball instincts to go with that frame and speed, he could very well be a game changing DB.

Agreed. The kind of guy that Chamblin would rather see at boundary corner. If he's good enough to start, he could be at boundary and Graham flipped over to field corner. That's a big "if" though. He'd have to prove it.

RAJ47
01-30-2012, 01:33 PM
Agreed. The kind of guy that Chamblin would rather see at boundary corner. If he's good enough to start, he could be at boundary and Graham flipped over to field corner. That's a big "if" though. He'd have to prove it.

hopefully we get his name on a contract soon....

Bingo_Arms
01-30-2012, 02:05 PM
Was Lawerence a hold over on the neg list from the Womack / ET days or is he a recent addition? I find it hard to believe Ken Miller would have been able to put this guy on the neg list as there likely wasn't beta film available. Any insight on how he ended up on our list?

Rider_Stronson
01-30-2012, 02:08 PM
Was Lawerence a hold over on the neg list from the Womack / ET days or is he a recent addition? I find it hard to believe Ken Miller would have been able to put this guy on the neg list as there likely wasn't beta film available. Any insight on how he ended up on our list?

I'll ask about him and get an answer for us.

goriders99
01-30-2012, 02:46 PM
IIRC, rotor said that Oldenburg was the last player that was left on the neg list from when ET was here.

Rider_Stronson
01-30-2012, 02:51 PM
IIRC, rotor said that Oldenburg was the last player that was left on the neg list from when ET was here.

Oldenburg definitely an ET guy. ET loves him and the Riders love him. He can play LT and RT. This prospect may bear some close watching.

Bingo_Arms
01-30-2012, 02:59 PM
Oldenburg definitely an ET guy. ET loves him and the Riders love him. He can play LT and RT. This prospect may bear some close watching.

If he can step in and start, that would be a heck of a salary savings from one of the tackles we currently have.

szarka33
01-30-2012, 03:03 PM
If he can step in and start, that would be a heck of a salary savings from one of the tackles we currently have.

...and way less turnstiling.

BigGreen
01-30-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm excited to see him come up here and hopefully get it turned around. As a big Alabama fan I have followed him since he committed to BAMA as part of the class of 2008 with Ingram, J.Jones, Dareus, Upshaw, etc. He was expected to be an impact player but for whatever reason it never worked out and he ended up leaving the program. Hopefully he is ready to come in and compete and put all of that talent to use.

http://www.tidefans.com/forums/football/107460-alonzo-lawrence-no-longer-usm-football-team-2.html

Rotor
01-30-2012, 03:53 PM
IIRC, rotor said that Oldenburg was the last player that was left on the neg list from when ET was here.

correct that is what he told me when we signed Oldenburg -